Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
See what I'm talking about with the snide,smart ass comments about washing and bedsores? Skinny people get bedsores too,more so than obese people. Why,because the tissue over bony areas breakdown quickly,like the hips and ankles. I don't get why society doesn't realize you can be happy being big,just as people are happy being skinny. And for all who think I'm lazy I work 80 hours a week so take THaT.
I know my family has good genetics because both my grandmothers were my weight and lived into their 80s.
The point I'm trying to make is that why can't someone be healthy and obese at the same time? Why is that a hard concept for some to understand? I guess the diet industry wants you to believe that,huh? Have you eve heard on any of these diet commercials "feel great,look great,be healthy",or do you hear "look good,lose weight?
I'm not aware of any mention of bedsores and I searched the thread twice. Did I miss something?
And if you don't have a belly (and I'm assuming "belly" means more than a little fat in that area), then you most likely are not overweight. So what's the problem? Are you really overweight?
Location: Back in Melbourne.....home of road rage and aggression
402 posts, read 1,159,860 times
Reputation: 526
Quote:
Originally Posted by kickinit
It just doesn't look good either! And I wonder how hard it would be to get into your car.. Do you pull your belly around the steering wheel? What about washing yourself? Have you ever lost a washcloth?
I love a good quality, constructive, enlightened response. Especially with all that loose hanging skin left over from your 600 lbs weight loss in a year.
Jerseygal4u, you will never win, not with this crowd. It doesn't matter what you say, what information you supply, what explanation you give, or what evidence you provide, the fact that you are overweight takes away all your credibility and worth. (that's sarcasm and not aimed at you )
Lifestyle choices do play a major part in how things turn out for all of us, whether we're talking weight or health, but those 2 terms are NOT interchangeable, and I'm sorry if people can not, or will not, accept that. I repeat, Weight and health are NOT interchangeable terms. Being thin is NOT always the same as being healthy. Being fat is NOT always the same as being unhealthy. Many times the 2 go hand in hand, and many times they do not.
I'm so tired of the endless ongoing lectures and finger shaking about how if fat people would just lose the weight, already.
PEOPLE--if it were so easy to do, if it was a matter of just losing the damn weight, there would be no fat people. It's that simple. Learn it. Know it. Live it. Then get over it.
Just as every human being is different in appearance (eye colour, hair colour, skin colour etc) so too are their physiology and genetic makeups. Not everyone responds to a program in the same way. Some people lose massive amounts of weight in a fairly fast time by following weight watchers; some don't. Some do better on Atkins; some don't. Others do better by following a system of 6 small meals a day, whereas others are do better with the standard 3 square meals.
I'm not saying that being overweight isn't correlated with medical issues and poor quality of life, because there is a lot of linkage there. I'm just saying that it's not always that way. There are no absolutes when it comes to this. Yes, overweight and obesity increases the risks of health issues, but it doesn't mean that it's a definate. It's not a certainty.
And then there is the moralising of food, weight, and appearance. If you are fat, you are bad. If you are thin, you are good. Healthy foods are good; junk foods are bad.
However, if you are thin and eat the junk/bad food, you're still considered good. If you are fat and eat the bad foods, then you are really bad.
Thin = attractive, fat = ugly. If that's true, then why are there so many fugly thin people in the world? Just sayin'..... What's that you say? Beauty is the in the eye of the beholder? Does that not apply to weight as well? Obviously not. Why I don't know, but I'm sure someone has done a study on why.
Speaking of studies, I recently read the findings of some studies that indicate that in general,people would be less offended having to sit next to a thin animal-abusing-granny-raping-child-molester, than a fat person who is clean nicely dressed and gainfully employed. Seriously? Are you kidding me?
Fat people are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. If not forever on a diet, then they're lazy and unmotivated and have let themselves go. If they are on a diet, then they're just not dieting hard enough, or dieting right. If they are losing weight, then they aren't losing it fast enough, therefore doing it all wrong--despite the repeated-ad-nauseum mantra that 'losing it slow is losing it healthy and more likely to stay off and blah blah blah'.
Fat people are berated for not dressing trendy, despite the lack of trendy clothing available. If they do dress trendy, then they just shouldn't because fat people shouldn't be seen in trendy stuff, lest it devalue the non-fat people dressing trendy. If they wear clothing that fits, it's referred to as too tight, shows how fat they are, and boy don't they think they're all that!
If they wear clothes that are loose, they are just slobs, who don't care how they look, and it's not like it disguises that they're fat.
If they don't exercise, or at least be seen exercising (it must be witnessed because we all know that being fat is synonymous with being a liar too), they are just lazy and not trying, and want to stay fat.
If they do exercise, especially where they can be seen, then they're made fun of for being out of shape, jiggling, bouncing, and apparently visually assaulting non-fat people because they're out there being fat at them.
Why is it perfectly acceptable to make baseless assumptions about fat people, but not about thin people? It seems that most everyone assumes that:
--fat people don't know they're fat (I doubt that--I'd go as far as saying that 99% of fat people are overly aware of the fact that they are fat)
--fat people know they're fat but they just don't care (I doubt that too and can say that of the fat people I know, it's the one thing they obsess about to the point of being annoying)
--fat people not only don't care, they actually like it and try to get even fatter just to be subversive (no fat person that I know--and I know a lot--likes being fat and certainly none of them want to get bigger no matter who it pisses off)
--fat people don't know the difference between "good" and "bad" foods, but if they do they will always choose the bad foods (really? ever gone out to dinner with a fat person? They usually immediately go to the salad section and if not it takes them forever to decide what they'll have to eat because they are deliberating how much more offensive the skinless roast chicken is than the broiled salmon.)
--fat people have no self control, no discipline and no motivation (please. those things are no different to rubber bands. Stretch it far enough it will eventually break. Keep it stretched to it's max for too long and it will never work right again)
--fat people have never thought about weight loss, so have also haver never tried to lose weight (I think with fat people it's the thing they think about more than anything else and they are forever trying to lose the weight)
--fat people are just so lazy and slovenly and hoggish (most of the fat people I know are some of the least lazy, least slovenly and least hoggish people I know. In fact many of them go way overboard in trying to counteract those assumptions)
--fat people are clearly unintelligent and uneducated because no smart or educated person could ever let themselves get/be fat (again, most fat people I know practically kill themselves to ensure they aren't perceived that way)
--fat people flatly refuse to follow the advice of their doctors and comply with the weight loss plans because they are out to prove a point (see the one about lazy, slovenly and hoggish)
--fat people hate thin people, and when trying to take up for themselves they are labelled as jealous or skinny haters (I think most fat people are desperate to be one of the thin people; there is a difference between being envious of someone and just hating them)
--fat people want everyone to be fat (no they don't. most of them don't want to be fat themselves. in a perfect world, they'd like everyone to be the same: thin.)
I could go on forever. Should I? I'm on a roll--and can't decide if that pun was intended or not.
so the question is: how much harder do fat people have to try before people stop hating them for simply being fat? What more can they do so that thin people aren't offended by their very existance? I really want to know!
They are already trying every plan, every scheme, every "solution" out there. Many resort to essentially having their digestive tracts mutilated; I don't think a thin but ugly person would cut their head off if they were told that they were offensive to beautiful people, nor should they. I'd go as far as to say, that if someone advertised a magic knife that could cut off excess body fat, there would be such a stampede to get the stupid thing that the company wouldn't be able to keep up with the requests. Because fat people have done everything else, and are still fat. Why not try the ridiculous, the far fetched, the dubious and the scientifically unproven? Nothing else worked, might as well give the magic knife a shot too!
It's such a mindf**k. Fat people can not win, no matter what they do. I don't understand what more, exactly, that the larger part of society expects from fat people. I guess they should simply stop exisiting, full stop.
Location: Back in Melbourne.....home of road rage and aggression
402 posts, read 1,159,860 times
Reputation: 526
Well, I'm sorry, but if you are overweight yet have no other health issues presenting, what exactly is unhealthy about the exess weight? And with regard to a healthy or ideal weight number, I think a persons individual ideal weight is as individual as their fingerprint, but I digress.....we must at all times be able to label people.
BMI, that golden calf in the sky of so many, is at best a fundamentally flawed measurement tool, that has zero business being applied to a singular person to determine the current state of their health. It only takes into account 2 statistics of a person to lump them into a catergory, which is just ludacris. That is as of little value as taking the length and weight of a car and to determine how well or poorly it performs, based on only those 2 criteria.
I know plenty of overweight people who have no health issues: no blood pressure issues, no blood sugar issues, no cholesterol issues; their resting heart rate is good, no tachycardia/arrhythmia, their stamina is good, lung capacity great, pulse ox excellent. No problems with knees, hips or ankles. No issues with recovery after exertion. Blood tests all come back with nothing out of the ordinary (blood tests having been insisted upon because the doctors just knew they were time bombs......and were proven wrong). These people all look after themselves really well, but they just have the misfortune of being overweight, having been overweight literally their entire lives (so the excess weight was not the result of a lifestyle of excesses and sloth). Aside from that, they are fine. If the weight is so unhealthy, then why are they absolutely fine, despite the number on the scale?
However, I know plenty of overweight people who DO have health problems, which may or may not be aggravated by, caused by, or resulting in their excess weight. Some of these people also look after themselves really well, and some really do not.
I also know plenty of people who are NOT even close to being overweight, but who have a wide variety of health problems that are almost always associated with overweight & obese persons. Some of these people look after themselves, and some of them do not. My cousin is a great example of this--he's a long distance runner, eats a very clean (ridiculously clean IMO) diet, doesn't drink AT ALL, EVER, certainly doesn't smoke or take any drugs, yet was diagnosed with Type II diabetes a couple of years ago. He struggles to keep his blood sugar under control. To look at him you've never guess in a million years that he's got such a problem with an "obese persons disease". Hmm...wonder how that happened? Oh yeah, that's right--it runs in his moms side of the family. Practically everyone on that side has it. Some are overweight, some, like Cory, are rail thin. Sorry, but lifestyle factors are not the only thing at play with my cousin!
The point I'm making, is that health problems can come about at any time, whether there is a weight issue or not, whether you look after yourself or not, although you cut the risks considerably by taking good care of yourself--which includes but not limited to--making good dietary and nutritional choices, staying hydrated, getting regular exercise and sufficient sleep. One can not just look at a person, of any size/weight, and make an accurate judgement about their health or their lifestyle based on their appearance. You just can't. If that were the case, then doctors would not have to run tests, right? There would no need for exploratory surgeries, scans, scopes, or other diagnostic tools.
I'm not trying to say that every single overweight or obese person out there is healthy, because that is completely illogical--but so is saying that someone that isn't overweight is perfectly healthy. I'm just arguing on behalf of the overweight people, people that I know personally, who prove on a daily basis that being overweight doesn't equate unhealthy. That they are, by definition, perfectly healthy, except for the number on the scale, which compared to the other evidence, is arbitrary.
I love a good quality, constructive, enlightened response. Especially with all that loose hanging skin left over from your 600 lbs weight loss in a year.
I'm so tired of the endless ongoing lectures and finger shaking about how if fat people would just lose the weight, already.
PEOPLE--if it were so easy to do, if it was a matter of just losing the damn weight, there would be no fat people. It's that simple. Learn it. Know it. Live it. Then get over it.
Just as every human being is different in appearance (eye colour, hair colour, skin colour etc) so too are their physiology and genetic makeups. Not everyone responds to a program in the same way. Some people lose massive amounts of weight in a fairly fast time by following weight watchers; some don't. Some do better on Atkins; some don't. Others do better by following a system of 6 small meals a day, whereas others are do better with the standard 3 square meals.
I'm not saying that being overweight isn't correlated with medical issues and poor quality of life, because there is a lot of linkage there. I'm just saying that it's not always that way. There are no absolutes when it comes to this. Yes, overweight and obesity increases the risks of health issues, but it doesn't mean that it's a definate. It's not a certainty.
Fat people are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. If not forever on a diet, then they're lazy and unmotivated and have let themselves go. If they are on a diet, then they're just not dieting hard enough, or dieting right. If they are losing weight, then they aren't losing it fast enough, therefore doing it all wrong--despite the repeated-ad-nauseum mantra that 'losing it slow is losing it healthy and more likely to stay off and blah blah blah'.
If they don't exercise, or at least be seen exercising (it must be witnessed because we all know that being fat is synonymous with being a liar too), they are just lazy and not trying, and want to stay fat.
If they do exercise, especially where they can be seen, then they're made fun of for being out of shape, jiggling, bouncing, and apparently visually assaulting non-fat people because they're out there being fat at them.
Why is it perfectly acceptable to make baseless assumptions about fat people, but not about thin people? It seems that most everyone assumes that:
--fat people don't know they're fat (I doubt that--I'd go as far as saying that 99% of fat people are overly aware of the fact that they are fat)
--fat people know they're fat but they just don't care (I doubt that too and can say that of the fat people I know, it's the one thing they obsess about to the point of being annoying)
--fat people not only don't care, they actually like it and try to get even fatter just to be subversive (no fat person that I know--and I know a lot--likes being fat and certainly none of them want to get bigger no matter who it pisses off)
--fat people don't know the difference between "good" and "bad" foods, but if they do they will always choose the bad foods (really? ever gone out to dinner with a fat person? They usually immediately go to the salad section and if not it takes them forever to decide what they'll have to eat because they are deliberating how much more offensive the skinless roast chicken is than the broiled salmon.)
--fat people have no self control, no discipline and no motivation (please. those things are no different to rubber bands. Stretch it far enough it will eventually break. Keep it stretched to it's max for too long and it will never work right again)
--fat people have never thought about weight loss, so have also haver never tried to lose weight (I think with fat people it's the thing they think about more than anything else and they are forever trying to lose the weight)
--fat people are just so lazy and slovenly and hoggish (most of the fat people I know are some of the least lazy, least slovenly and least hoggish people I know. In fact many of them go way overboard in trying to counteract those assumptions)
--fat people are clearly unintelligent and uneducated because no smart or educated person could ever let themselves get/be fat (again, most fat people I know practically kill themselves to ensure they aren't perceived that way)
--fat people flatly refuse to follow the advice of their doctors and comply with the weight loss plans because they are out to prove a point (see the one about lazy, slovenly and hoggish)
--fat people hate thin people, and when trying to take up for themselves they are labelled as jealous or skinny haters (I think most fat people are desperate to be one of the thin people; there is a difference between being envious of someone and just hating them)
--fat people want everyone to be fat (no they don't. most of them don't want to be fat themselves. in a perfect world, they'd like everyone to be the same: thin.)
Gosh... so many great things here...TOTALLY AGREE
I am now a size 4 and workout almost daily... NO I hated it at first and had the "swiss cheese" excuses... "I don't have time".
I now get up 2 hours before I have to go to work and walk, dance use yoga or "zumba workouts", join outdoor activities... in general keep myself as active as possible.
I was very healthy and hiked and could keep up with most of my thinner friends but I was 270 at one time in my life.. mis-diagnosed for years and found I had a thyroid disease (that is why weight watchers and other diets NEVER worked). I'm finally on thyroid replacement and I now eat 6 times a day (not full meals) but tiny nutrional snacks. I avoid sugar because for me... it is like an addiction (like an alcoholic taking a drink). It took me many years to get down in weight but was always the "welter weight". It is when I finally got the results of working out and the great feeling it can give you is when I am now thinner, considered body type "athletic" and smaller then when I was 20. By the way... I'm 57 so age has not hampered by progress.
It has not been an easy road TRUST me... but I was like you and thought I was content with my body size... now that I am so much smaller... I believe I just came to terms with being larger (people would say "you're big boned") funny now people say "you have such a tiny frame" LOL ... I don't ever repeat EVER want to go back. By 60... I will be even better
Gosh... so many great things here...TOTALLY AGREE
I am now a size 4 and workout almost daily... NO I hated it at first and had the "swiss cheese" excuses... "I don't have time".
I now get up 2 hours before I have to go to work and walk, dance use yoga or "zumba workouts", join outdoor activities... in general keep myself as active as possible.
I was very healthy and hiked and could keep up with most of my thinner friends but I was 270 at one time in my life.. mis-diagnosed for years and found I had a thyroid disease (that is why weight watchers and other diets NEVER worked). I'm finally on thyroid replacement and I now eat 6 times a day (not full meals) but tiny nutrional snacks. I avoid sugar because for me... it is like an addiction (like an alcoholic taking a drink). It took me many years to get down in weight but was always the "welter weight". It is when I finally got the results of working out and the great feeling it can give you is when I am now thinner, considered body type "athletic" and smaller then when I was 20. By the way... I'm 57 so age has not hampered by progress.
It has not been an easy road TRUST me... but I was like you and thought I was content with my body size... now that I am so much smaller... I believe I just came to terms with being larger (people would say "you're big boned") funny now people say "you have such a tiny frame" LOL ... I don't ever repeat EVER want to go back. By 60... I will be even better
Wow!! Good for you!!! Sounds like you have really got some self control!!! And you're helping with the overpopulation of the world. While you used to take up enough room for a couple people now you are being fair to the rest of us by taking up your fair share of space.
Well, I'm sorry, but if you are overweight yet have no other health issues presenting, what exactly is unhealthy about the exess weight? And with regard to a healthy or ideal weight number, I think a persons individual ideal weight is as individual as their fingerprint, but I digress.....we must at all times be able to label people.
I know plenty of overweight people who have no health issues: no blood pressure issues, no blood sugar issues, no cholesterol issues; their resting heart rate is good, no tachycardia/arrhythmia, their stamina is good, lung capacity great, pulse ox excellent. No problems with knees, hips or ankles. No issues with recovery after exertion. Blood tests all come back with nothing out of the ordinary (blood tests having been insisted upon because the doctors just knew they were time bombs......and were proven wrong). These people all look after themselves really well, but they just have the misfortune of being overweight, having been overweight literally their entire lives (so the excess weight was not the result of a lifestyle of excesses and sloth). Aside from that, they are fine. If the weight is so unhealthy, then why are they absolutely fine, despite the number on the scale?
.
The health problems will catch up with them later. Sooner and far worse (and more varied) than in a fit person. I'm surprised you know all the blood sugar levels, blood fat levels and every little detail of the fitness of "plenty" of overweight people. Are you a physician? Or is it just hearsay? Yes, it is. To defend being fat.
I don't eat fast food everyday,I could go for months without it.Meanwhile I know skinny people who eat it everyday,so since you are so smart,who would be healthier?My doctor says I'm healthy or else I would not have written this thread.
For the record,you can still excercise 30 minutes a day,and eat right(there are even different opinions on that,go figure)
and still be overweight. Why? Because your genetics say so.
Like I wrote yesterday... I felt that genetically I was doomed to be a bigger person. I ate at home (rarely fast food EVER) vegetables and no more the 1800 calories. Still was very over weight. Found out I had Hashimoto PubMed Health - Chronic thyroiditis (Hashimoto’s disease) / was given a thyroid replacement and lost weight but was still 50 lbs over weight... then dropped excuses about no time to work out and work out at least 1 hr a day, walk the stairs, walk on breaks, enjoy nature and the outdoors for the exercise and experience and vary rarely eat sugary foods (sugar is very addictive) or fried foods. My gosh... it took me 50 odd years to finally "GET IT" so never ever too late to change the mind set... I always HATED when "skinny" people gave me advice... "how would they know they never had to struggle"... well I'm one of those "skinny" people now who had to struggle all her life with weight and YES I've been there/ done that and NOT doing it again tomorrow. by the way... I do not diet... it is my life style... eating to live not living to eat... funny I have to remind myself to eat now
No matter how healthy your labs indicate you are at the moment, gravity will inevitably take a toll on your joints. It really is simple science that the less weight on your joints the less stress they will be under.
When I was in my 20s and 30s I didn't really think about what my life would be like in my 70s and 80s. Now that I have more perspective I choose to maintain a healthy weight and lifestyle to try to make my elderly years more enjoyable. In the end it's your choice about how you want to live your life, but for most overweight and healthy don't go together for the long term. Hope you beat the odds.
Location: Back in Melbourne.....home of road rage and aggression
402 posts, read 1,159,860 times
Reputation: 526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weatherfan2
The health problems will catch up with them later. Sooner and far worse (and more varied) than in a fit person. I'm surprised you know all the blood sugar levels, blood fat levels and every little detail of the fitness of "plenty" of overweight people. Are you a physician? Or is it just hearsay? Yes, it is. To defend being fat.
Yes, health problems can catch up with them later, but so can they with thin people too!
I'm not saying that being fat isn't unhealthy, I'm just saying it's not ALWAYS unhealthy. I don't say that it doesn't indicate other health conditions, but it doesn't ALWAYS indicate other health conditions.
ONE CAN NOT LOOK AT A FAT PERSON AND DETERMINE JUST BY LOOKING AT THEM WHAT THEIR CURRENT HEALTH STATUS IS.
What is it about this concept that people don't understand?
Fit and thin are also not necessarily interchangeable terms. when hiking up some of our mountains up here, it's not terribly unusual to see thin people being out paced by someone who is fat. I just look at that as one person being more fit than the other, regardless of weight.
The reason I know 'all about the blood sugar levels, blood fat levels and every little detail of the fitness of "plenty" of overweight people is because in their quest to justify their very existence, to gain the acceptance to just BE, they share this information with anyone who will listen. To be honest, many of them are good friends, the others are usually at group support meetings for diabetes and other health issues.
No, I am not a physician. I volunteer at the community centre where they hold the above mentioned meetings. After setting up the chairs, and getting the heat/cooling system going (they don't run them while the centre is not being used) a lot of times I stick around. It's interesting to me, and besides I have to come back later to help with putting away chairs and tables. You can learn a lot by attending meetings and hearing what people have to say about their condition and how they are coping.
No, it is not hearsay, not when it comes from their mouths and they show me report print outs. The reason they bring the print outs is so they can refer to the stats when they talk about how they're faring. Occassionally we have a guest speaker, and sometimes the people like to get their opinions on things. Especially if they are newly diagnosed. Talking to other people with the same issue helps you understand it better, especially if you have a doctor who talks in industry terms or who hasn't got the time, or professionalism, to explain things to you in laymens terms.
I defend fat people, not being fat. Fat people, regardless of what you may think, are still people, and deserve to treated like the human beings they are. They deserve respect and acceptance, just like the elderly, the mentally or physically disabled, the learning challenged, people with drug or alcohol problems, gambling addictions, OCD etc etc etc.
Being fat isn't a crime. Dare I say that the vast vast VAST majority of fat people wouldn't choose to be fat, anymore than they'd choose to cut off their arms or legs. If it were as easy to lose weight as so many people think it is, then there would be hardly any fat people anywhere in the world.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
)
Embrace change it is well worth it....
