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I'm not refuting that a 2 meal diet is bad, I'm stating the science behind it. Here one more time for the cheap seats:
"To put this in tangible terms, if you eat 200 calories worth of protein, your body will use between 40 and 70 of them in digestion. The most common estimate for the total thermic effect of food is around 10 percent of your total caloric intake, but as your protein intake increases so does this number."
If you increase your protein intake (which you do by compressing 8 meals into 2 meals) then you are increasing your TEF. The same exact amount of protein that is consumed in 8 meals a day is compressed into 2 meals a day, and by doing this you are increasing the percentage of calories for the TEF.
If you can't understand this, that is your problem.
As to dogma/ego, no one cares.
Quarter of the effort and same results? Please show me a Professional Bodybuilder that eats 2 meals a day. You can save that anecdotal BS for yourself.
holy crap man. You are NOT increasing your protein intake by eating the same freaking exact amount of protein in 2 meals instead of 8. 200 grams of protein is 200 grams of protein. I'm pretty sure a 2nd grader could grasp that. If you are eating the same amount of protein in both scenarios, then who the hell cares if protein increases the TEF? That is irrelevant.
Go check out Martin of Leangains for one example (and all his clients results found on his website) of a 2 meal a day guy who is stronger and leaner than 99.9% of human beings.
You are still not grasping how widespread and powerful the dogma is within the bodybuilding community (but yeah, no one cares, rriiighht). There are some pro bodybuilders who only eat 2 meals a day, I pay almost zero attention to that world so I can't give you any names, I just know that there are a few out there. And anyway, who the hell wants to look like a bodybuilder? Why focus on them when they are freak outliers? The subject of this discussion is not bodybuilders. If they want to stick to outdated methods and spend their days cooking and eating and lifting for hours on end, let them. No one else is interested, everyone else just wants to lose weight and look great in the easiest and most sustainable way possible (hint, 8 meals a day is the POLAR FREAKING OPPOSITE OF "EASY").
holy crap man. You are NOT increasing your protein intake by eating the same freaking exact amount of protein in 2 meals instead of 8. 200 grams of protein is 200 grams of protein. I'm pretty sure a 2nd grader could grasp that. If you are eating the same amount of protein in both scenarios, then who the hell cares if protein increases the TEF? That is irrelevant.
Go check out Martin of Leangains for one example (and all his clients results found on his website) of a 2 meal a day guy who is stronger and leaner than 99.9% of human beings.
You are still not grasping how widespread and powerful the dogma is within the bodybuilding community (but yeah, no one cares, rriiighht). There are some pro bodybuilders who only eat 2 meals a day, I pay almost zero attention to that world so I can't give you any names, I just know that there are a few out there. And anyway, who the hell wants to look like a bodybuilder? Why focus on them when they are freak outliers? The subject of this discussion is not bodybuilders. If they want to stick to outdated methods and spend their days cooking and eating and lifting for hours on end, let them. No one else is interested, everyone else just wants to lose weight and look great in the easiest and most sustainable way possible (hint, 8 meals a day is the POLAR FREAKING OPPOSITE OF "EASY").
Can you try to convey yourself as an adult? Or is your vocabulary limited?
These are the people you are discussing:
And I'm discussing:
Not even a comparison.
My number example was this:
Let's say you eat a daily protein intake of 500 calories. You do this in 2 meals, for simplicity let's just say you take in 250 calories per meal. The research shows the higher the protein intake per meal the higher the TEF. If you took that same amount of protein (500 calories) and divided it up equally between 8 meals instead of 2, 62.5 calories of protein per meal, you are reducing the TEF because you're intaking less protein per meal. You are eating the same exact amount of protein through the day, however, you are reducing the TEF. Good luck with that 2 meal deal. Everyone has an ideal body type, if you want to look like Bruce Lee perhaps a 2 day meal is perfect for you.
Not even a comparison because he takes steroids. No judgement here but to compare a person who doesn't use them to someone that does nullifies that comparison...
Again, you want to talk all this stuff that amounts to the final 1%. Kai Greene eats several times a day since it's easier to eat 8k calories in 8 meals. Most people don't want to look like Kai Greene. Nor are they going to take steroids like Kai Greene. And I'm fairly sure if you want to look like Greene, there's far more important things to worry about than making sure your TEF isn't wasting too many calories by not eating enough times in a day. Things like calories in the first place, training volume, sleep, etc are far more important than, "Man, I just wasted 300 calories by only eating 3 times today!"
So ultimately, your arguments boils down to, "I want to look like Kai Greene, so you should eat like him too because that's what he does."
So why is this even an argument? Go eat your 8k calories and the average person will go eat whenever they want. This isn't a bodybuilding forum after all....
Can you try to convey yourself as an adult? Or is your vocabulary limited?
These are the people you are discussing:
And I'm discussing:
Not even a comparison.
My number example was this:
Let's say you eat a daily protein intake of 500 calories. You do this in 2 meals, for simplicity let's just say you take in 250 calories per meal. The research shows the higher the protein intake per meal the higher the TEF. If you took that same amount of protein (500 calories) and divided it up equally between 8 meals instead of 2, 62.5 calories of protein per meal, you are reducing the TEF because you're intaking less protein per meal. You are eating the same exact amount of protein through the day, however, you are reducing the TEF. Good luck with that 2 meal deal. Everyone has an ideal body type, if you want to look like Bruce Lee perhaps a 2 day meal is perfect for you.
LOL! That dude is hideous, I can safely say almost zero people would choose to look like him if given the choice. You obviously didn't read what I wrote (or couldn't comprehend it). If you really want a shock post these pictures in a poll on here and see who people would rather mimic, the two ripped strong and normal looking dudes who eat 2x a day and have a life, or the roid-shooting monster who eats 8x a day?
And I feel we are arguing semantics on the TEF. It is just not a make or break thing, as I gave evidence for already. This isn't a bodybuilding forum, these are normal people living normal lives on here. Trying to get them to eat 8x a day is just downright cruel, especially when they absolutely do not need to. That kind of schedule is not sustainable for pretty much anyone long term.
And Martin doesn't look like Bruce Lee, just because he doesn't cheat his way to a physique doesn't mean he's tiny, the dude can deadlift 600 pounds. Most people don't even want to be as bulky as Martin, let alone that other guy you are comparing him to.
How does all this stuff posted in the last two pages of this thread relate in any way, shape, or form, to the topic of the thread (Paleo diet)? Is there something in the Paleo Diet documentation requiring dieters to only eat two meals per day? Or bulk up to look like a bodybuilder? Or have 99.9% lean body mass? If so, then I'm pretty confident that if I ever need to "go on a diet," I'll be avoiding Paleo like the plague.
How does all this stuff posted in the last two pages of this thread relate in any way, shape, or form, to the topic of the thread (Paleo diet)? Is there something in the Paleo Diet documentation requiring dieters to only eat two meals per day? Or bulk up to look like a bodybuilder? Or have 99.9% lean body mass? If so, then I'm pretty confident that if I ever need to "go on a diet," I'll be avoiding Paleo like the plague.
What aspect of the Paleo diet do you disagree with?
What aspect of the Paleo diet do you disagree with?
Of the actual Paleo diet? The entire diet. The fact that it is a diet at all, the flawed theory that since some of our ancestors might have eaten this way, it is therefore the best way for modern Man eat. The follow-up theory that okay, maybe our ancestors might have eaten this way, and we should eat this way, but hey it's okay if you diverge from it by doing A, B, and C, which clearly our ancestors couldn't have done, because refrigeration, dish detergent, soap, and ziploc baggies hadn't been invented yet.
It's just hocus pocus based on a few people who chose to cherry-pick a few sentences from a study, make up a far-fetched fairy tale that they can string along to the end of those sentences, and sell the whole shebang to the masses for a profit.
Yes, you can lose weight eating that way. You won't be healthy, and as soon as you get to your weight goal, you'll need to STOP trying to lose weight eating that way. And as soon as you stop, you'll gain it all back. And then you'll be overweight AND unhealthy, because you've punished your body by following a ridiculous "diet" that your body is not capable of handling without undue stress on your organs.
Thanks for your response.
However you sound like you have no idea what the Paleo diet consists of and are agitated at the mere term "Paleo Diet" while some may call this a diet in reality its a lifestyle that need never be abandoned, IMO its just sensible eating.
Some of us have been eating the basic American junkfood diet all our lives with no personal discipline as to what we eat as a result we are out of shape with the normal maladies of obesity,diabetes, hyper tention, cholesterol problems,something has to be done,returning to a wholesome diet/lifestyle is a big step in the right direction,coincidentally the lifestyle needed is very much similar to the Paleo diet so rather than give a long winded description of what we are doing Paleo Diet suffices as a convenient description.
One of many descriptions on Google of the basics of the Paleo lifestyle What Is The Paleo Diet?
Thanks for your response.
However you sound like you have no idea what the Paleo diet consists of and are agitated at the mere term "Paleo Diet" while some may call this a diet in reality its a lifestyle that need never be abandoned, IMO its just sensible eating.
Some of us have been eating the basic American junkfood diet all our lives with no personal discipline as to what we eat as a result we are out of shape with the normal maladies of obesity,diabetes, hyper tention, cholesterol problems,something has to be done,returning to a wholesome diet/lifestyle is a big step in the right direction,coincidentally the lifestyle needed is very much similar to the Paleo diet so rather than give a long winded description of what we are doing Paleo Diet suffices as a convenient description.
One of many descriptions on Google of the basics of the Paleo lifestyle What Is The Paleo Diet?
Trust me she knows what the Paleo diet is and so do I. And I say whatever works for a person is fine. But its not for everyone. The is also this misconception from some Paleo fanatics that if a person is NOT doing the Paelo diet they are gorging themselves on a low fat, high simple carb diet. There IS a middle ground.
The FACT of the matter is that no one eating plan fits all. So to say one way of eating trumps all others is just nonsense.
I suspect Paleo will play itself out at some point since avoiding certain food groups NEVER works in the long run. But hey, like I said, if it is working for you then keep it up.
If you can't explain it any more clearly than that cryptic sh** then you don't really understand it either, lol. Which means you are copy-pasting some random PHD's opinions hoping/trusting that he's right.
All you have to do is look at the plethora of guys who are very strong and very lean yet only eat 2 meals a day. Then it becomes clear that the number of meals per day isn't a make or break thing, it's (6-8 a day) mostly old dogma that refuses to die because people have wrapped up their ego/sense of self in it and have invested a massive amount of time and energy into it and refuse to accept that they were off base, that what they did and do isn't necessary. No one likes seeing or admitting someone can put in a quarter of the effort and get the same results, even PhD's.
As a current weight lifter who is around lots of bodybuilders, most of whom I get advice from, I have never met a body builder who only ate 2 meals a day. Your "plethora" claim is garbage in an attempt to win an argument. Don't be that guy. Most of us eat 3 meals or more. Most I know eat 5 times a day. I tend to eat 4 times a day. There are many reasons we eat multiple times a day. Over eating at one sitting in hopes of lasting 10 hours stretches the stomach and makes one sluggish. The hungrier you are, the more you'll eat and the greater potential to over eat. Eat before you're starving. Hard to do that if you only eat twice a day. When it comes to weight loss and weight gain, it's Calories in vs Calories out. End of freaking story. Josef Rakich on bb is absolutely ripped and eats Mcdonalds every day. He knows his macros and stays under his Caloric maintenance point. And he doesn't do that by eating twice a day. I was skeptical but I did lose 60lbs enjoying junk food on a regular basis. If you have a calorie deficit, you will lose weight. 2 meals a day you risk having to fight off hunger in the middle of the day or late at night. That will derail a weight loss plan quicker. So whether you believe your body goes into starvation mode or not, those reasons are sufficient enough to warrant eating at least 3 times a day.
And not sure who said it, but as someone else posted, fat is essential in nutrient absorption. That is correct. You need fat. "But I can lose weight cutting carbs and fat". Yea, and you can lose weight not eating ever again, or doing crack cocaine, but at what cost?
As for the Paleo diet, never tried, but my roommate has been on it for a year. Not impressed. I've made much higher gains in my lifting, athletics, and physique over him in a much much shorter time. It's smelling more and more like another Atkins or South Beach plan. Be glad when these fad diets die. But there will always be another one to take it's place I suppose.
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