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So you've already identified one very significant difference. Here's another: smoking is optional, while eating is mandatory. Obese people get that way by participating in an activity that everyone does every day.
No, it's not fine. Most people begin smoking as teens, when they are too young to fully appreciate its risks. (If you can keep a person from smoking before the age of 25, the odds are overwhelming that they will never take up the habit - did you know that?) And nicotine is a powerfully addicting drug. Not everyone who develops an addition will be able to overcome it, no matter how hard they try. So in a very real sense, it's not "their own choice."
We could do with a hell of a lot less judgementalism and shaming and a whole lot more education and honest concern for others' welfare in this country. The latter, not the former, is what leads to progress.
So would you support a "hard line" with parents that raise young children that are obese? Clearly we should actively intervene when parents don't feed their children properly and don't ensure an active lifestyle such that the kids are set up for a lifetime of weight issues? We certainly would if parents were allowing children to smoke. Isn't it a form of child abuse at worst, or at least neglect for the consequences on their child.
There is NO lack of education about being overweight and obesity. We have more intimation now than at any point in history and people are getting fatter and fatter by the combination of CHOOSING processed and low nutrient food and becoming and more and more sedentary.
I somewhat agree. I have a gym membership and rarely go. Why? Because its boring. Instead I participate in bike rides and hikes. When home I do some stretching and calisthenic exercises.
That's the point. There are so many ways to 'exercise.' --- physical activity to burn calories and keep the body in shape --- placing responsibility on 'society' or 'the nation' is passing the buck. If an individual doesn't either enjoy or have the self discipline to engage in any of those activities, I put it on them.
You're 100% wrong. Look into binge eating disorder. It's far more common and prevalent than anorexia and bulimia and most who suffer from it are overweight. The good thing is that there is treatment for binge eating disorder that has a good success rate.
Binge Eating Disorder (BED) is still up for debate. Sure it was in 2013's DSM-5 but people believe it is not a mental issues problem but rather an issue choice of choice. It's still very young for a classified illness so perhaps we'll know it as a true mental illness but for now it is not as generally accepted as say anoerxia or bulimia despite being like those a mental illness. http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/soc/facul...uyandgruys.pdf
One of the theories of BED (I use theory as we do need more research into it) is interesting to the topic of this very thread. Apparently people can end up having BED after hearing critical comments about weight as well as body criticism, ie: fat shamming. So by fat shamming say a Melissa McCarthy, you may in fact rather than "encourage her to be healthy" actually encourage her to become more unhealthy. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2719561/
I am not denying that BED is real or not, just that it is very new to being a mental disorder and things can change with research done over time. Right now, there is a lot of conflicting theories which actually made it somewhat controversial to be included in DSM-5 Remember at one point simply being homosexual was actually a mental disorder.
LOL. Exercise is probably the most boring activity known to man. It has occurred to me that anyone who actually enjoys exercising is somehow mentally deficient. I'm not talking about physically demanding sports - I'm talking about exercise for the sake of exercise (running, going to the gym, etc.) I'd rather watch paint dry. It's not that exercise is hard or expensive or time consuming. It's just boooooring. Whenever I pass by a gym, I wonder why all the folks inside don't participate in real sports instead.
I am active in a number of sports, that being said most people don't "exercise for the sake of exercise" they do it to live a long and healthy life. The same way they avoid foods they might love the taste of in order to eat a vegetable that may not taste as good as Haagen Daas but certainly fuels them better. To many who exercise sitting on the couch and watching reality tv is booooring.
MOST people in this country (yes, even the thin ones) don't exercise every day. Sorry to break it to you.
Is that a problem? Yes - even for the people who stay thin while being sedentary.
I said what everyone should do, I'm aware not everyone does, a more active society would be a healthier one, and.
Wait for it.
Not as fat.
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2/3s of the country is in fact heavier than is healthy. And most Americans, fat or thin, eat a terrible diet.
Is that a problem? Yes - even for the people who stay thin while eating crap.
The standard American lifestyle is unhealthy for EVERYONE. So if we're concerned about health why aren't we talking about that instead of obsessing over looks?
I was speaking simply of obesity. You said people get obese by eating, which yes is mandatory and everyone does it. I was only saying that it's safe to say 100% of the country does in fact eat, yet 100% of the country is not obese. There is no secret, eat healthier and become more active, and those are choices
I was trying to relate that to you saying the difference is that smoking is a choice
LOL. Exercise is probably the most boring activity known to man. It has occurred to me that anyone who actually enjoys exercising is somehow mentally deficient. I'm not talking about physically demanding sports - I'm talking about exercise for the sake of exercise (running, going to the gym, etc.) I'd rather watch paint dry. It's not that exercise is hard or expensive or time consuming. It's just boooooring. Whenever I pass by a gym, I wonder why all the folks inside don't participate in real sports instead.
I have figured out more internal conflicts than I can recall in the swimming pool. When your body is in a rhythm and things are going automatically your mind is left to wonder. Some people don't have as many neurons firing as others, I am sure, and they might find exercise boring. For me it is the best place to think about and resolve problems I am currently dealing with.
So would you support a "hard line" with parents that raise young children that are obese? Clearly we should actively intervene when parents don't feed their children properly...
Since this is about health, you'd support such interventions with ANY parents who aren't feeding their kids properly, right? Even if those kids are thin?
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There is NO lack of education about being overweight and obesity.
And it's making some difference - rates of pediatric obesity have leveled off. (Bet you didn't know that.) The next step is to see if we can get healthy habits established well enough in childhood that they'll be continued into adulthood.
I skimmed through most of the thread so I apologize if it's been brought up already.
Obesity related deaths is just behind tobacco related deaths in the US. Why is "shaming" smokers generally accepted and "shaming" obese is generally not? Besides the obvious of smoking effects others in smell, second hand smoke, etc. While the obese are just hard to look at.
When talking about smokers you always hear "I have no sympathy for them, it's disgusting and their own choice." And that's fine. But say that about the obese and it's not.
Smoking is down as everyone is aware of the health effects and it's not as well accepted in society
Obesity is up as everyone is aware of the health effects and it is accepted as normal?
Comparing apples to oranges? Just I thought I had I guess.
I mentioned this in a previous thread or two when smoking is brought up with an obesity thread or vice-versa and I brought it up earlier in this very thread when another person brought up smoking for "personal choice." In economics there is an idea of an externality which is a cost/benefit that one may did not choose to incur the cost/benefit, a side-effect basically. For obesity at best, you make your children subseptable to obesity and most end up on you. Smoking cigarettes does hurt you too with being more prone to cancer but also effects others. By smoking, you can produce second-hand which makes others coughing up from due to carbon monoxide in the smoke. Women who are pregnant but smoking put their baby to risk with possible lung problems; increased probability of premature births, low weight births and increased heart rate; birth defects are more common; and the risk of SIDS is much higher as well as miscarriage and stillbirth. Even prolonged secondhand smoke while pregnant can give these problems. Effects of Smoking While Pregnant: Dangers to Your Baby
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Originally Posted by iknowftbll
Shaming overweight people IS generally accepted by many. There are a lot of movements to counter it, but make no mistake: it is still very much socially acceptable to shame overweight people.
Though now I am sure you agree that there are more people who are looking to fight back being fat shamed.
I was speaking simply of obesity. You said people get obese by eating, which yes is mandatory and everyone does it. I was only saying that it's safe to say 100% of the country does in fact eat, yet 100% of the country is not obese. There is no secret, eat healthier and become more active, and those are choices.
Eating right and becoming more active DO NOT guarantee that a person will not become obese. They greatly improve the odds (and ALWAYS improve overall health), but some people will become obese even when eating a good diet and getting a reasonable amount of exercise.
Society has always had obese people in it. It's the steady overall shift of the weight curve to the right that has health authorities all over the world alarmed.
That's the point. There are so many ways to 'exercise.' --- physical activity to burn calories and keep the body in shape --- placing responsibility on 'society' or 'the nation' is passing the buck. If an individual doesn't either enjoy or have the self discipline to engage in any of those activities, I put it on them.
But that is part of the problem, the individual maybe turned off by certain activities. I see it at a summer camp I am in where kids may sit off to the side for most of the gym rotation depending on what they are doing. I find joy in walking and yoga though I need to do those activities just a little bit more but most people cannot find that from lifting weights, doing an exercise bike, etc. or perhaps don't have the time they can put away. On C-D in the work/employment forum there are several people that say you need to work 50, 60 even 70 hours a week. Quick math, after sleep about 45.5 hours of sleep (about 6 & 1/2 hours a night) and 70 hours of work that leaves only 52.5 hours in a week to travel to and from work, cook or buy and then eat meals when not on the clock, do chores and run errands, as well as exercise (though in some jobs you can do that on the clock.)
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