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Old 11-03-2018, 07:09 AM
 
Location: City Data Land
17,156 posts, read 12,956,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Not sure how you're eating lots of greens and all those berries and cream on keto. Carb restrictions are too stringent for that, although I guess it depends on what you mean by lots of greens.

I wouldn't really worry about it though. I don't think keto is a healthy way to eat, so keep on eating those lots of vegetables and keep at it since it's working for you and don't worry about keto.
It can be if you go about it the right way rather than the wrong way. Unfortunately many people do it the wrong way, called "dirty" keto. Dirty keto involves eating lots of bacon, burgers, butter, and foods that are high calorie, high in saturated fat, protein, but low in vitamins, minerals, fiber, and antioxidants vegetables provide. Keto, like every other diet, should be plant based first, meant based second.

The fat macros, (suggested amounts based on body weight, BMR, activity, and age) are recommended maximums for individuals, not averages or minimums. I am currently trying keto but am having trouble because I am a petite woman with little weight to lose, so my calorie allotment is very low, thus I am not eating much food and am having trouble with hunger ironically. When most calories come from calorie dense foods and the person can't take in a lot of calories without gaining weight, it's difficult to lose the weight so many others can easily. But it offers me a huge advantage other diets haven't: the low carb factor. I have problems with sugar shakes and dizziness, something I can't explain because I am not diabetic. The low carb has made me feel a lot better. So I am sticking with it and seeing if I can push past the initial difficulty. A lot of diets make a person hungry at first and if they stick with it, it goes away. I'm hoping this one is the same.
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Old 11-03-2018, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,863 posts, read 25,129,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks View Post
It can be if you go about it the right way rather than the wrong way. Unfortunately many people do it the wrong way, called "dirty" keto. Dirty keto involves eating lots of bacon, burgers, butter, and foods that are high calorie, high in saturated fat, protein, but low in vitamins, minerals, fiber, and antioxidants vegetables provide. Keto, like every other diet, should be plant based first, meant based second.

The fat macros, (suggested amounts based on body weight, BMR, activity, and age) are recommended maximums for individuals, not averages or minimums. I am currently trying keto but am having trouble because I am a petite woman with little weight to lose, so my calorie allotment is very low, thus I am not eating much food and am having trouble with hunger ironically. When most calories come from calorie dense foods and the person can't take in a lot of calories without gaining weight, it's difficult to lose the weight so many others can easily. But it offers me a huge advantage other diets haven't: the low carb factor. I have problems with sugar shakes and dizziness, something I can't explain because I am not diabetic. The low carb has made me feel a lot better. So I am sticking with it and seeing if I can push past the initial difficulty. A lot of diets make a person hungry at first and if they stick with it, it goes away. I'm hoping this one is the same.
Feel free to post up a daily eating plan that only has 20-30 grams of carbs (the usual ballpark one must stay under to be in ketosis) that includes sufficient vegetables. If by keto you just mean low-carb, that's different. Nothing wrong with low carb in my book.

It's almost completely impossible to eat plant-based keto. Plants contain carbs. When you're only allowed to have 20 grams of carbs a day, it's very tough to get in calories from any plant without going way over that. Almonds or Pecans, but you're still looking at 10 grams of carbs or so in 1,500 calories. Which leaves another 10 grams or two servings of broccoli. That's not enough vegetables and not a healthy diet. Realistically, the only way to do it would be using oils. Oils for calories, meat for protein, and then use the 20 grams of carbs for the most nutrient dense vegetables you can find. Without the meat it would be impossible as plant-based protein sources all have way too many carbs.

Last edited by Malloric; 11-03-2018 at 08:50 AM..
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Old 11-03-2018, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
13,448 posts, read 15,475,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks View Post
It can be if you go about it the right way rather than the wrong way. Unfortunately many people do it the wrong way, called "dirty" keto. Dirty keto involves eating lots of bacon, burgers, butter, and foods that are high calorie, high in saturated fat, protein, but low in vitamins, minerals, fiber, and antioxidants vegetables provide. Keto, like every other diet, should be plant based first, meant based second.

The fat macros, (suggested amounts based on body weight, BMR, activity, and age) are recommended maximums for individuals, not averages or minimums. I am currently trying keto but am having trouble because I am a petite woman with little weight to lose, so my calorie allotment is very low, thus I am not eating much food and am having trouble with hunger ironically. When most calories come from calorie dense foods and the person can't take in a lot of calories without gaining weight, it's difficult to lose the weight so many others can easily. But it offers me a huge advantage other diets haven't: the low carb factor. I have problems with sugar shakes and dizziness, something I can't explain because I am not diabetic. The low carb has made me feel a lot better. So I am sticking with it and seeing if I can push past the initial difficulty. A lot of diets make a person hungry at first and if they stick with it, it goes away. I'm hoping this one is the same.
The issue is that many prospective dieters think that keto is "all the meat and fat that you can eat". In a way, keto is no different than any other diet plan. You have to have calorie restriction, it is suggested that you pick healthier sources of fats, it is suggested that you also exercise. On keto, like any other diet, you can't overeat, you're supposed to stop when you feel satisfied, not stuff. I posted a link in another topic about a dieter who discovered that in order to lose he did in fact need to pay attention to how much he was eating and practice control. Dirty keto I don't think is healthy at all. Overconsumption of meat is not a good thing.

I eat basically moderate carb (100-150), moderate fats, moderate protein. I've even incorporated some of the keto stuff like adding more fat to my diet, but I aim to have a balanced diet of all three macros. That took the weight off and it has kept it off. I don't have any sugar problems or fat problems (too much fat causes digestive issues). Ultimately, you want to start a diet that you can stick with.
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Old 11-03-2018, 05:03 PM
 
3,972 posts, read 5,165,715 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
One serving of strawberries, 8.4 grams net carbs. That's 42% of the daily carb allotment. Still need to get vegetables in, plus there's carbs in lots of food. Eggs, for example. On a normal diet two x-large eggs is a trivial amount of carbs. On 20 carbs a day, it's 5%.

Canola oil is natural fat. It's just rapeseed oil. It's not like organic, cold-pressed canola oil doesn't exist. It's not the normal means of production. It's as natural as extra-virgin olive oil. Regular canola oil is more like refined olive oil. Although really the majority of so-called extra-virgin olive oil is not so basically you've at best got a 50-50 chance that the "more natural" extra-virgin olive oil you pull of a shelf is actually anymore natural than canola oil.
Like I said, strawberries are low carb, not carb free. You just don't want to eat to many. Having four or five with breakfast isn't going to hurt.

As for "daily carb allotment", that varies from person to person depending on their caloric requirements. You want to keep your carb intake to about 10% of your calories. If your eating 1800 calories a day, that would be 180 calories of carbs. (180 / 4 calories per gram of carbs = 45 grams of carbs).

Getting veggies in is easy too. There are quite a few low carb veggies and greens that you can eat. Broccoli, asparagus, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, mushrooms, zucchini, turnips...the list goes on.

The problem with canola oil is that it's processed, very little is left natural. It's extracted from the seeds using hexane, a chemical refined from crude oil. Not to mention glyphosate-resistant canola oil is approved in the U.S., which means you're probably getting some good old Roundup each time you use it. Yes there are organic canola oils, but those cost more and very few people will buy it when the $1.29 Good Value brand is right next to it. I use very little bottled oil anyway. I mostly use coconut oil or avocado oil except with eggs, then I use butter.

All I know is this is the only diet I've tried that has actually gotten results. Not only am I down 60 lbs (just weighed myself) in about five months, I've gotten the willpower to walk down the snack aisle and not grab multiple things.
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Old 11-03-2018, 05:06 PM
 
3,972 posts, read 5,165,715 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riaelise View Post
The issue is that many prospective dieters think that keto is "all the meat and fat that you can eat". In a way, keto is no different than any other diet plan. You have to have calorie restriction, it is suggested that you pick healthier sources of fats, it is suggested that you also exercise.
Yeah, I started like that too. You soon find out that it hiders you. Too much protein will get turned to glucose in your system and your body will drop out of ketosis when that happens. Now meat is still part of my meals, but I'm sure to add greens and bump up the fats with avocado, cheese or sour cream.
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Old 11-03-2018, 10:17 PM
 
Location: in a galaxy far far away
19,206 posts, read 16,689,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st33lcas3 View Post
Like I said, strawberries are low carb, not carb free. You just don't want to eat to many. Having four or five with breakfast isn't going to hurt.

As for "daily carb allotment", that varies from person to person depending on their caloric requirements. You want to keep your carb intake to about 10% of your calories. If your eating 1800 calories a day, that would be 180 calories of carbs. (180 / 4 calories per gram of carbs = 45 grams of carbs).

Getting veggies in is easy too. There are quite a few low carb veggies and greens that you can eat. Broccoli, asparagus, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, mushrooms, zucchini, turnips...the list goes on.

The problem with canola oil is that it's processed, very little is left natural. It's extracted from the seeds using hexane, a chemical refined from crude oil. Not to mention glyphosate-resistant canola oil is approved in the U.S., which means you're probably getting some good old Roundup each time you use it. Yes there are organic canola oils, but those cost more and very few people will buy it when the $1.29 Good Value brand is right next to it. I use very little bottled oil anyway. I mostly use coconut oil or avocado oil except with eggs, then I use butter.

All I know is this is the only diet I've tried that has actually gotten results. Not only am I down 60 lbs (just weighed myself) in about five months, I've gotten the willpower to walk down the snack aisle and not grab multiple things.
Great comments. You mention strawberries and their carb count, I'm reminded of a gentleman who produces YouTube videos about his journey with insulin resistance. In one of them, he talked about strawberries. One medium sized strawberry counts as one carbohydrate so he takes three or four of them, cuts them into really small chucks and adds a Tbsp of heavy whipped whipping cream - sweetened with stevia - on it. He says he can still have his dessert while keeping his glucose in check. I tried it and it works.

Also, thanks for talking about canola oil. It's like a knife in my side when I see people saying they are still cooking with and eating that junk. Even celebrity chefs use it and I just cringe when I see them pouring it into the skillet. Same with olive oil. Olive oil doesn't have a high smoke point so the molecular structure of it changes (for the worse) when heated. It should be used in salad dressings only or drizzling over vegetables to help herbs and spices stick better.

The best oils to cook with are avocado and coconut since they both have a high smoke point. And any study that says canola oil and olive oil are good to cook with were bought and paid for by the manufacturing company who sell them.

You've done a great job at bettering your health. Keep up the good work
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Old 11-04-2018, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,863 posts, read 25,129,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st33lcas3 View Post
Like I said, strawberries are low carb, not carb free. You just don't want to eat to many. Having four or five with breakfast isn't going to hurt.
But a serving of strawberries has over 8 grams of carbs. If you were to get your recommended 3 servings of fruits from strawberries, that's 24 grams. It's much too high for keto. That doesn't mean you can't have five strawberries now and then (approximately half a serving, depending on the size of the strawberry), but it does mean there's that many less carbs for vegetables. But that's half a serving and already 20% of a 20 gram carb allotment.

Quote:
As for "daily carb allotment", that varies from person to person depending on their caloric requirements. You want to keep your carb intake to about 10% of your calories. If your eating 1800 calories a day, that would be 180 calories of carbs. (180 / 4 calories per gram of carbs = 45 grams of carbs).
Which is too high for most people to be in ketosis. To me Keto is simple. If you're in ketosis, it's keto. If you're not in ketosis, it's not keto. It's pretty simple to check, but it's unlikely eating 45 grams of net carbs on an 1,800 calorie diet results in ketosis and is therefore most likely not keto. It's just very low carb Roughly doubling the amount of carbs certainly does make it much easier to eat a healthful diet though. Again, personally, not for me. I try to eat as many vegetables as possible instead. I do moderate fruit. It's not because of carbs but sugar. I try to moderate my intake of sugar so for me chowing down on a pound of grapes is a no go.

Quote:
The problem with canola oil is that it's processed, very little is left natural. It's extracted from the seeds using hexane, a chemical refined from crude oil. Not to mention glyphosate-resistant canola oil is approved in the U.S., which means you're probably getting some good old Roundup each time you use it. Yes there are organic canola oils, but those cost more and very few people will buy it when the $1.29 Good Value brand is right next to it. I use very little bottled oil anyway. I mostly use coconut oil or avocado oil except with eggs, then I use butter.
So get organic canola oil. No Roundup, no chemicals. Allegedly anyway. There may well be just as much fraud in it as olive oil, and the Roundup side does favor olive oil there as GMO olives aren't yet a thing so even if you've only got a 50/50 chance that a bottle of "extra-virgin" olive oil wasn't chemically processed by randomly picking one off the shelf, it still won't have Roundup. Personally, I stay away from coconut oil. There's 5,000 experts with 5,000 opinions but that's just where I land. YMMV.

Quote:
All I know is this is the only diet I've tried that has actually gotten results. Not only am I down 60 lbs (just weighed myself) in about five months, I've gotten the willpower to walk down the snack aisle and not grab multiple things.
But do you attribute that to your restriction of vegetables? I have no issue with low carb otherwise which generally isn't a problem with low carb diets anyway. Eliminating or severely restricting grains and legumes isn't something I do but they're not to me an essential part of a healthy diet. Sufficient vegetables are, hence I'm not a keto fan as it's very, very difficult to get sufficient vegetables (let alone fruits) on an actual keto diet.
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Old 11-04-2018, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,863 posts, read 25,129,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereOnMars View Post
Also, thanks for talking about canola oil. It's like a knife in my side when I see people saying they are still cooking with and eating that junk. Even celebrity chefs use it and I just cringe when I see them pouring it into the skillet. Same with olive oil. Olive oil doesn't have a high smoke point so the molecular structure of it changes (for the worse) when heated. It should be used in salad dressings only or drizzling over vegetables to help herbs and spices stick better.
Celebrity chefs don't really care about nutrition that much. They're mostly doing it for taste. Canola has a mild flavor so it's a logical oil to cook with from that perspective where something like avocado oil or olive have a heavier flavor. There's absolutely nothing wrong with cooking with olive oil. You just need to be aware of the smoke point. I do it all the time. It's just for things like sauteing or baking where the heat doesn't get up that high. It's great in stir fries as it adds, to me, a pleasant flavor. If I'm adding meat to the stir fry, I'll use something else when I cook that. Usually I just use balsamic vinegar as I'm so lazy I cook in non-stick pans so I don't really need oil anyway. Water does fine there and balsamic adds a nice flavor to chicken.
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Old 11-04-2018, 03:10 PM
 
Location: New England
346 posts, read 358,361 times
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I've been doing Keto since 1/1/18 and have lost 30 lbs. It's not pure Keto, but darn close. I cut processed foods, sugar and flour. Eat lots of meats and fish plus vegetables. I have drinks on weekends only. Desserts rarely anymore. I feel great and have noticed much improve concentration.
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Old 11-04-2018, 03:14 PM
 
Location: New England
346 posts, read 358,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nativenewenglander View Post
I've been doing Keto since 1/1/18 and have lost 30 lbs. It's not pure Keto, but darn close. I cut processed foods, sugar and flour. Eat lots of meats and fish plus vegetables. I have drinks on weekends only. Desserts rarely anymore. I feel great and have noticed much improve concentration.
One item I forgot is I only eat when hungry and have noticed greatly reduced hunger. I eat breakfast, but at 10 am- noon and usually no lunch, then dinner at 6 pm. I'm 57 and have figured out I don't have to eat that much to feel good.
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