We're getting a puppy - need advice on training (breeder, surgery, adopt)
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To add to cleosmom's excellent advice (although to be honest I hate to give advice at a distance) consider the following:
Don't let your vet sell you Science Diet. It's crap. Why is it there you ask? because Hill's gives it away to the Vet schools and they make money. Most knowledgeable dog-people will agree with that statement. Personally I wouldn't go to a Vet who carried the stuff.
Vets range from the touchy-feely holistic to old school. Do you know your Vet's general philosophy on dealing with his patients? (read Dr. Nancy Kay's Speaking for Spot) You should. You are going to be spending a lot of money there. What is her opinion on vaccinations? The thinking has changed fairly recently that all the vaccinations and booster shots aren't necessary (think Big Pharma). Do you know how your Vet feels about the current vaccination protocols?
Picking a breed for a particular reason is like saying all your children are the same. There are variations within the breed. There is no guarantee that your new puppy will get along with your cats simply because it is an Aussie. Yes, you can train that behavior, but it doesn't happen simply because you have an Aussie and you put them in the same room together to see what happens. If you find that the situation is just not working out and the cats are your priority, is your breeder willing to take the puppy back? Responsible breeders will step up to the plate in the interests of protecting their dogs. Your contract may even say something about returns.
From cleosmom's post: "Props to the person at the pet store who said no to Diamond and suggested Blue, expensive? Yes and no. Price point yes, amount of that to feed vs. a utilitarian food NO." If you think you can get away with grocery store-quality dog food you are making a mistake on several levels. Good food is expensive for a reason. Lower quality food is filled with cheap fillers and "meat by-product" and cheap grains that aren't good for digestion.
If you don't like picking up after your dog, well... either get used to it (here's where you'll get to see first hand the difference between cheap and quality food), or don't get a dog. Use newspaper bags (although becoming scarce), grocery store bags (check for holes), biodegradable lavender scented bags from the pet store or online. It's easy enough to house train by bringing the dog to the same spot in the yard — but here's the catch -- you have to be there to do it. The smell will remain at the spot you've chosen even though you've cleaned up. The pheromones remain and cause the dog to react involuntarily. Dogs don't "see" the way we do; they smell in a way that we can't.
"Mouthy is simply that; wanting to wrap his mouth around your hand, foot etc and being a tad nippy. Even if it looks adorable that he wants to chew on your finger/hand, the answer is no." Emphatically, no. Not you, not your friend, not your spouse, not your child. What is cute as a puppy is awful as an adult. And with some puppies, "a tad nippy" will leave you thinking you are in constant contact with a piranha -- no joke.
Visits *after* round two of shots, to me personally, is a risk that I'm willing to take. Why? Socialization. But it's still a risk. You need to understand the importance of socialization (to both people and dogs) and the risks of your puppy contracting Parvo and make your own decision.
Jumping up is something all puppies do. Simply don't encourage it by lavishing attention. The puppy wants attention. Turn sideways and the pup will lose its grip and walk away. Repeat and reward good behavior. Sitting at a "front", ie first, sitting, and second, looking at your face while sitting. Praise (good, Peaches!!) and reward. Or, click and treat. (clicker training, see Karen Pryor's books).
Excercise? Don't confuse the size of your house with exercise. Don't confuse running around in a dog park with exercise. Why?
Probably, most importantly, "this breed NEEDS a job." Or to put it another way, this breed shouldn't be left in a crate all day.
If you were my best friend (based on what you have written here) and recognizing that this may seem a bit harsh, I would be questioning whether you are really ready for a dog at this time. A better fit for you might be an older rescue from your local shelter.
But that's just my opinion.
Z
Thanks for the advice.
My choice would have been a rescue dog. Then we could have picked one with a personality that fits our family. I've found rescue cats have been my best pets. Unfortunately, dh wanted a pure breed and picked this breed. If it had been my choice, we'd be at the pound. Dh did look but everything they had was a pit bull mix.
I'm starting to think that maybe installing a doggie door on the garage and leaving him out all day might be a better deal than penning him in the house all day. Unfortunately, the kids have school and I have to work for a living. What do other people who work for a living do with their dogs? I, certainly, don't want him chewing up things in the house or coming home to messes to clean up. Maybe he needs to be an outdoor dog and just stay out doors.
Has this already been mentioned? Maybe an Australian Shepard is not the dog for you...they can be high maintenance dogs...needing lots of stimulation so they don't get bored. Have you considered a different breed?
The final link is for the entire list of Ebooks. Many are free. There are also DVDs you can purchase on training. The main things are patience and consistency. Enjoy your pup. And Aussies require mental as well as physical exercise!
I completely and totally, 100%, could not even possibly agree more with the links to Leerburg. You want quality training? GO to Leerburg! I bought the DVD, "Your Puppy 8 Weeks to 8 Months" and I can only sing the praises. This guy has trained police dogs for over 40 years. I swear by his training. I have brother and sister dogs, which are never recommended, (I didn't necessarily choose them...I've written about it before, they were tossed out of a car like garbage), and I had a long, hard road ahead of me. Leerburg has been a Godsend.
BUT! The MOST important thing that you MUST remember when training a puppy is this:
IT IS A PUPPY.
Patience, patience, patience, patience, patience, patience, patience. You must remember, this is a puppy.
I will tell you a few things you will find on Leerburg:
You must be fair to your dog.
You must know that your dog KNOWS what you are asking it to do. You can't think maybe it knows, it kind of knows, sometimes it knows, your dog must KNOW, 100% what you are asking before you EVER dream of discipline.
Discipline is NOT a bad word. "NO" is NOT a bad word. Discipline does not mean beating your dog. It does not mean hitting your dog. It does not mean yelling at your dog. You do any of those things, you will lose your dog's respect and you will have the worst time on earth ever trying to train your dog.
You have to make the dog WANT to do what you say.
I won't go on, I will only highly, highly second the recommendation to go to Leerburg's site, order some of the DVDs, the one I mentioned is the best one to start with.
You want a trained, obedient dog who respects you? Go. Now.
My choice would have been a rescue dog. Then we could have picked one with a personality that fits our family. I've found rescue cats have been my best pets. Unfortunately, dh wanted a pure breed and picked this breed. If it had been my choice, we'd be at the pound. Dh did look but everything they had was a pit bull mix.
I'm starting to think that maybe installing a doggie door on the garage and leaving him out all day might be a better deal than penning him in the house all day. Unfortunately, the kids have school and I have to work for a living. What do other people who work for a living do with their dogs? I, certainly, don't want him chewing up things in the house or coming home to messes to clean up. Maybe he needs to be an outdoor dog and just stay out doors.
Leaving him out might not be a good thing as most aussies I know tend to bark a lot and your neighbors are not going to like a bored dog barking all day. Herding dogs tend not to be the quietest group. Herders tend to see and hear all and often bark at things .Because of that intelligenence and high energy they do become bored and can then become very destructive. If you do not find something for them to do they will find something and often it is not something you will like. It would be great if AFTER obedience when the dog is following commands well if your daughter could do something like agility or flyball with the dog. We had a young teen and her aussies in an agility class and this girl and her dog were pretty amazing and that training really bonded them as you and the dog do become a team.
I think just about any dog raised with cats can do well with cats so that is not an aussie thing. After years of owning herding breeds a few years ago I added a sighthound called a silken windhound to my pack and some say sight hounds often see cats and small dogs as prey but my boy is fantastic with cats and small dogs... actually his breed would have been a good one for your family as while he is every bit as beautiful as any aussie and every bit as smart the breed tends to just need a good run then they are quite happy just lounging around or cuddling with their human and they are not barkers.
As for food my advice is stay away from science diet as look at that label where is the real food? I would not skimp on food and instead buy a higher quality as often when you go for cheaper foods the money you" save' is spent at the vets with skin issues or other health issues. The saying you are what you eat is true good nutriton does lead to good health.
I hope things work out as Aussies owned by the right people can be awesome dogs. The herding breeds tend to really bond to their owners and I have seen my cousin who was not a dog person as his family only had cats go from being a cat person to a person owned by 3 aussies! They are the pride and of of he and his wife and do agility and pet therapy. Yes they do own 2 cats too.
My choice would have been a rescue dog. Then we could have picked one with a personality that fits our family. I've found rescue cats have been my best pets. Unfortunately, dh wanted a pure breed and picked this breed. If it had been my choice, we'd be at the pound. Dh did look but everything they had was a pit bull mix.
I'm starting to think that maybe installing a doggie door on the garage and leaving him out all day might be a better deal than penning him in the house all day. Unfortunately, the kids have school and I have to work for a living. What do other people who work for a living do with their dogs? I, certainly, don't want him chewing up things in the house or coming home to messes to clean up. Maybe he needs to be an outdoor dog and just stay out doors.
Rather than a doggie door, which will have your dog outside barking most of the time and getting your neighbors upset, possibly chewing and/or jumping the fence, I suggest looking into doggy daycare. A tired dog, is a happy owner We have several dogs that come in to my work for daycare M-F. Some come all five days (one whose owner is a veterinarian) and other comes 2- 3 times a week. There is something to be said of what a pack of dogs can do for a dog that their human pack can not do for them. Think of it somewhat like girl's night. You've got a wonderful family, but girl's night is something else right?
"You want a trained, obedient dog who respects you? Go. Now."
Great suggestion, but you seem to be overlooking the threshold fact that no one will be home ALL DAY. At best you'll achieve a sort of maintenance. At best.
Aussies are great dogs, but maybe not for your situation. The decision to get one was based on your needs/wants not the dogs. That's a recipe for disaster especially when you're not really sold on having a dog at all. There are things that make a breed or specific dog a good fit for a family above and beyond being "good" with cats. Your pup may well be good with your cats (or not), but the needs of the puppy are equally important. It would be better to rethink your choice and focus on one that puts the needs of the dog at the top of the list. An older rescue seems like a better fit for your family than a young pup whose needs for exercise, training and companionship will be difficult to meet with your work/school schedules.
I agree completely with the above. Getting a puppy sounds like a disaster. I have had two puppies in my life...and hated them both with a passion. They destroy things. Pee in the house, need constant attention. I had to put an additional twenty hours a week of puppy time and training into an already full schedule.
Of course, after 18 months of work....I had two great dogs...each one lived 12 and 15 years respectively....
I HATE people who get a puppy....and BLAME the dog for not being perfectly trained....then get rid of it. Don't do this...please.
Our last dog was awesome. He was a "mutt"...a Bassett Hound mix. He was SO smart. And basically a breeze to train. But on the cats...cats figure it out...some dogs have a high prey drive...and just can't "help" themselves on that chase...prepare for broken stuff...
Last edited by jasper12; 07-06-2012 at 06:41 AM..
Reason: edit
Well, unfortunately, dh has already purchased the dog for dd. This was a decision dh made and I'm just along for the ride. I wasn't planning on being part of the dog's training but I'm thinking dh may not know as much as he thinks (he grew up with dogs but they were working dogs. I grew up with dogs that chew everything and pee where they shouldn't.)
At this point, what I need is advice to make the best of this situation as it's not changing so advising a different breed or not getting a dog at all isn't helpful. I need to figure out how to make the best of this situation.
As to barking, I'm thinking the dog will be debarked as I can't have him barking at neighbors all day and from what I read here, I can't keep him in the house all day. Nice suggestion on doggy day care but I can't afford a day care bill for the dog. I never realized that you had to have someone home all day with a dog.
I'm thinking this is going to be a miserable experience for all but it's a done deal. I was hoping it could turn out decent but I see it can't. There is no way dh is going to tell dd she can't have this puppy. I guess this one will be chalked up to life experience.
Thanks for the advice. Too bad it just leaves me depressed. I was hoping learning about puppies would help. Instead it just confirms that this is a bad decision but it's already been made. Dh is convinced that the dog will be fine.
I'm going back to my orignal plan and just going along for the ride. I'll let them do what they're going to do and stay out of it. Hopefully, both of them will learn a lesson. I'm sad to say that that sounds like the best that can come out of this.
Please don't debark your dog. It can cause physical problems from scar tissue, and I don't believe you'll find many vets willing to do it. Physically altering an animal as a first resort to deal with behavior problems (that haven't even occured yet) is not the way to think about things. And leaving a puppy outside has a host of other problems. Dogs get stolen out of people's yards more often than you might think. It's a lot easier to dig under a fence than you might think. Then there are toxic plants, and other inedibles he might get hold of. Talk to your husband about these things so you can all be thinking about how to handle this puppy when you're gone.
I understand you're unhappy about this. I would be too. But when you say hopefully they'll learn a lesson, what about the puppy? He's the one who will pay the price if they're not up to this. He is the innocent one in all this.
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We have several dogs that come in to my work for daycare M-F. Some come all five days (one whose owner is a veterinarian) and other comes 2- 3 times a week. There is something to be said of what a pack of dogs can do for a dog that their human pack can not do for them. Think of it somewhat like girl's night. You've got a wonderful family, but girl's night is something else right?
