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Please don't paint this as an issue with rescues. I don't know what happened here, if this was a fluke, if the dog was adequately tested before placement, if the rescue dropped the ball. Things happen. But I do know that getting a puppy is certainly no guarantee of anything. Dogs don't even show their true adult temperaments until 18 months or so. You can get an anxious/fearful dog from the best breeder in the world. If anything, you know more of what you are getting with an adult rescue.
Sorry but I disagree. Unless you've had any dog, I don't care where it came from, starting from puppy age you most likely have no idea it's background. When a dog gets turned into a shelter 99% of the time you don't know why. Could be housetraining issues, escaping, aggression, who knows. You are taking a risk. Some wind up with a rescue due to old age, death of owners, etc. Those dogs you may be able to get more info.
You always have to be more careful with senior dogs bc I think they can tend to be more anxious and tense. Their hearing is going, their eyesight is going, and their joints may hurt. The world is a little scarier, surprising, and painful.
I think the scrapes are a testament to the warning nip your daughter got.
Most dogs don't really want to bite you.
I told both my kids if either of our collies (Lassie collies) bites them, my first assumption will be it's the kid's fault.
And it's always an ongoing conversation every day about how to interact, how to read body language, how to approach, how to deal with resources, etc.
That does not mean the dogs are more important than the kids. It means everyone needs to be responsible for their own behavior.
You always have to be more careful with senior dogs bc I think they can tend to be more anxious and tense. Their hearing is going, their eyesight is going, and their joints may hurt. The world is a little scarier, surprising, and painful.
I think the scrapes are a testament to the warning nip your daughter got.
Most dogs don't really want to bite you.
I told both my kids if either of our collies (Lassie collies) bites them, my first assumption will be it's the kid's fault.
And it's always an ongoing conversation every day about how to interact, how to read body language, how to approach, how to deal with resources, etc.
That does not mean the dogs are more important than the kids. It means everyone needs to be responsible for their own behavior.
I love you for this post Esp the last sentence. I so wish more peeps "got" it.
You always have to be more careful with senior dogs bc I think they can tend to be more anxious and tense. Their hearing is going, their eyesight is going, and their joints may hurt. The world is a little scarier, surprising, and painful.
I think the scrapes are a testament to the warning nip your daughter got.
Most dogs don't really want to bite you.
I told both my kids if either of our collies (Lassie collies) bites them, my first assumption will be it's the kid's fault.
And it's always an ongoing conversation every day about how to interact, how to read body language, how to approach, how to deal with resources, etc.
That does not mean the dogs are more important than the kids. It means everyone needs to be responsible for their own behavior.
I had to to turn over a dog to rescue due to those issues. 12 years old, hearing on the way out, glaucoma etc. When my daughter started crawling the dog would get annoyed. I wasn't going to let my baby get bit nor did I think it was fair to crate/block the dog. Thank goodness a rescue was willing to take her in. She lived the rest of her life with someone from the rescue. They kept me updated on her for while. She fell into their pool pretty often but quickly learned to navigate inside the house.
Having adopted both adults and puppies I can say you NEVER know for sure what you are getting. Out of 3 adults I had only one had issues and that was Dash and he was aggressive when grabbed or when you groomed him or a vet examined him and I was actually able to fix that. Then he became a dog I did trust with anyone. The other two adults were great dogs. Phoenix born deaf with limited vision was afraid of kids until the end last couple years of her life but rather then growl or snap she would just hide from them.
Puppy wise both Jazz and Chaos were small puppies both went to puppy classes and were socialized the same way. Chaos is great but Jazz lived her life with fear aggression and the vet behaviorist I saw back in the 1990's felt it was more genetic then anything else. Being a border collie X cattle dog she was also hyper, bossy , too intelligent and not a dog for everyone but she became my once in a life time dog as she was quite an amazing animal, Despite her snapping at some people in her 14.5 yrs she never bit anyone. Had she wanted to bite them she would have. That growl or a snap was her way of saying I am uncomfortable so back off. I taught people to listen to that. She could also be a very sweet loving dog and loved meeting people and adored kids. I had 3 rough and tough young nephews who loved her and she loved them. She would play rough with them but never left a mark on them. Because of her I understood just how much control a dog has over its bite and the pressure as she would grab the boys and tug them and as I said never a mark. She is one dog I know would have bitten had anyone tried to harm me or her 3 boys as she was very protective. When some punks got near me once and started giving me a hard time she got right in their faces, teeth bared looking very vicious but they backed right off and left.
Dazzle is my only buy from a breeder and I pretty much got what I expected too. He was 8 months as she had been hoping his retained testicle would drop but it did not so I got him as pet quality. His breed is known to be very gentle and while I have seen him stand up to a dog that came over and nipped him too hard aggression is not the norm for him and even that one time he just growled and snapped the air in front of the dog. I think when you do buy from a responsible breeder that breeds not just for conformation but temperament that you do have a good idea of what your dog will be like.
Every dog we had as a kid was either a shelter dog or a stray as were all my parent's dogs after we all grew up. Most of them were wonderful dogs great with kids. While yes the cranky old guy they had bit all of us at least once but it was our own fault and one other dog bit a kid that came to the door but that kid and others use to tease him and poke sticks at him through the fence. The others might have growled a few times when we annoyed them but that was all the bites and my parents usually had 2 or 3 dogs at a time. Those of you that keep making it sound like if you adopt a shelter dog you are asking for trouble think again. Also when bringing any new dog in give it time as it is in a new place , probably nervous so some early aggression issues could be due to that.
If you prized the dog more than you do your six-year-old, I would understand why you would be having second thoughts about getting him out of your HOME.
I really like dogs, and would be very sad at sending him away, but that's the appropriate thing to do now. It won't be any easier than later, when/if you find he just isn't trustworthy; which you should have felt by now. Regardless of what your daughter may have done, get a dog more suitable to train and to teach kids to treat properly.
The best reason to have pets is enjoyment, and if you actually enjoy this (poor) dog enough to continue to have him ... I hope you won't be back admitting to what a mistake it was to have kept him.
Last edited by onlyne; 08-21-2017 at 11:15 AM..
Reason: misspelling
My friend had a dog who she was concerned about letting alone with children. The reason was her dog didn't like people it it's face and children are right at that height. Perhaps when the dog was on the couch the child got in his face and that set him off to nip.
As heartbreaking as it is, I would return the dog because you never know what will happen next. I have seen two situations that an initial nip turned into something more severe. The dog I mentioned above ended up mauling a man in his face and had to be put down.
Another time a dog nipped my son, he had never done it before so the owners were shocked. They didn't think much of it and three months later that dog mauled their daughter causing her to have a huge scar down her face.
I think when it comes to the choice, it is pretty clear the dog needs to go back and find a family that doesn't have children.
I'm reading and appreciating all of the responses. I do appreciate the candor. I haven't responded in kind because I am still in a state of shock and really don't know how to respond at this time. At some point I will. There were some powerful posts here that obviously came from the heart, and to those posters - I thank you.
As people reading know, this is not a black and white situation, despite what some think. Yes, even in five weeks, our family has bonded with this dog. I'm not going to sugar coat it - I do love him and he is a great dog. He has a great temperament. But as we have discovered, he is not a fit for young children. That's to say it isn't his fault or a knock against him. Humans aren't always a fit with small children either. He did warn her. So I'm in no way upset with him.
Do I love the dog more than my six year old? For people who own dogs and have children, many can understand when I say that it's not loving one "more". Of course, in the case of my child's safety, that will always come first, no question. But as for love? it's a different type of love, for lack of a better word. I don't like comparing the two. I have/had deep affection for all of my pets, this dog was becoming no exception. He had a pretty crummy life before despite the sugar coating by the rescue and the clinic. Any dog that was used primarily for blood donation is not a great life even if he was cared for and had contact with people. As I said upthread, let's face it - he's 11. Strike number 1. He's a big black dog - for some reason (weird to me) that is offputting to some people (the rescue told me this). Strike 2. This is the reality, and as I chronicled on this board, we didn't care about that. We wanted to give him a good life for the remaining years he had left. We have a lot of love to give an animal, and he was no exception. We have a rabbit who is adored and also a rescue (this rabbit was about to be hit by a car when someone took him in and we adopted him).
The rescue, bless their hearts, is a smallish outfit. Now that I reflect on it, they too dropped a ball. He was in foster for close to four months when I found out about him from a neighbor. (His foster home was in an adjacent neighborhood. someone from Nextdoor read about us looking for a "family dog" and put me in touch with the foster.) On the website and FB, the dog was "good with ALL people" "total lovebug" "the sweetest dog you'll ever know". The emphasis on all is theirs, not mine. Post after post about him was that he loved all people and dogs and that he was "so sweet he even gives hugs". "Very dog and people friendly" Well that's exactly what we were looking for in a family dog. One that was "sweet" a "lovebug" and wanted to be with his people. What they didn't mention was that he's never been in a home with children younger than 10 (or really any children at all. foster was a single woman) and that the "all people" means "all adults". They say that the dogs are "vetted" before placement and they'd take as much time as needed to make sure the dogs that are placed are a good fit, and I do believe their intent is pure. BUT...a dog can be good and sweet (which he is) but not comfortable around children. As for why didn't we ask? Well we did, in a text, and were told he was probably good with kids since he was so loveable. The kids met him before we adopted him. After we heard about his background, coupled with nothing being amiss in the beginning, we wanted him to be our family dog. I wanted my kids to experience the joys that we had with our first family dog, especially my youngest daughter.
After reading this topic, thinking long and hard about things, and info online, and always "after the fact", I can now say yes, he is not comfortable around children. He does turn away when they touch him. As far as he's concerned, my husband and I are his world. The kids are just there. Before anyone mentions training, I just wanted to say that we were going to start training almost immediately, and as a family, but it was suggested by the trainer that we wait for about a month to see what his personality was in order to tailor things to his needs. Based on the incidences at the day care, we wanted to stop moving so fast and slow things down a bit. We were going to start obedience training in September when the trainer returned from maternity leave (she is a great trainer and we hit it off, so we figure we'd wait). I figured that would help place the kids in the pack hierarchy and we could all communicate better with the dog.
And then this happened. You think it should be cut and dry. Dog bites kid. Dog bye bye. Maybe that's the answer (I haven't made a decision yet one way or the other), maybe it's not. I've never had this happen before, but since it involves a beloved family pet's life, you'd best believe I'm going to give deep consideration. There are several posters whose names I can't think of right now, I really want to thank you for your thoughts, "for" and "against". I feel a lot of emotions right now that I can't put to paper, so to speak. suffice to say, I feel bad for the entire situation - for both my daughter and my dog. let's just leave it at that.
And I just wanted to mention, just in case it needs to be said. My six year old is actually pretty calm and not overly boisterous. We take into account our kids personalities before we bring dogs into our home. Since they're calm children, we thought they'd be a good match for a senior. Personally, I prefer seniors over younger dogs, who will just bowl my youngest daughter over. We waited until she was of suitable age before we even thought to bring in a pet so that we could train her on how to interact with animals. She doesn't pull on his ears, tail, pummel him. If she's about to commit an infraction, we're quick to tell her no and why. She's very trainable and I know she will only get better. She's a kid..for a lack of a better world, she's going to commit doggie no nos. We try to educate her as best we can but sometimes crap happens, like this. He jumped up on the couch next to her, she didn't seek him out. She thought when he laid next to her that signaled he wanted affection since he's done that before (at least with us adults). She could not decipher what his body language was when he was got up on the couch. There was no food, toys. He has arthritis, but she wasn't near his legs. He got a clean bill of health from the vet. He did warn her, so he wasn't in the wrong either. And that's the rub, there is no "bad guy". She was being a kid, he was being a dog. Like the poster said, we essentially fostered the dog and discovered (albeit in this fashion) that he's not good with kids. That really sucks all around (to simply put it) .
It's just an unfortunate situation. Like I said, I wanted to acknowledge all of the feedback here, because people had cared enough to post. Thanks.
Return the dog and make sure the rescue knows what the dog did so they can rehome it, preferably to a home with patient folks and no kids.
I just want to say this, we are patient. I'm not sure how you could have inferred that we weren't. Any other issues, we would tackle. The separation anxiety is definitely an issue, but we could (and would) work on that, for as long as it took. Those types of quirks, I'd handle, for my dear pet.
But this is different, and I know it, I'm not oblivious.
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Esp the last sentence. I so wish more peeps "got" it.
