Our dog bit (nipped) our six year old. Faced with a difficult decision (chihuahua, black)
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Due to the anonymity of an online forum I'm going to say something that I haven't been able to say to my poor placements. Please bring the dog back. I have had basically your family adopt a foster of mine. Parents with 2 young girls. Dog was not with me long enough to evaluate with children. We have none. Dog was calm, small size, walked well on a leash and well tolerated the children meeting him. A couple of weeks after the adoption the dog snapped at one of the girls friends who was sitting on the couch with her but the dog was between the girl and the friend.
I so wanted that dog to come back for a better placement but they wanted to try. They wanted to train. They were lovely people. A couple of years later the dog did come back. The family got a divorce, moved to an apartment, kicked the dog off of sleeping on the bed because of new comforters and the dog started to bark all day in the apt. We placed the dog with a gay couple, no kids, who had adopted another dog out of the same hoarding situation. The dog was now living with 2 adults, could sleep on the bed, and had his best friend back from his original home.
There really is a better home for this dog.
Another case in point. We had a foster dog in a home with lovely people. Family with kids, another dog and a cat. But the foster dog was not thriving. Basically he stayed under the coffee table all day hiding. House was simply too active for him. I went to pick him up after he was there for 4 months with no progress. They were very concerned that he was not going to find a good home. They asked if I planned to keep him. I said no but he would find a good home. They said he always had a place with them if for some reason he could not find a place. As soon as I put him in the car crate he lost bowl control because he was so terrified.
Got him to my house and he was frozen. Sat in a crate with the door open. He just watched my two older female dogs who basically left him alone. He would not go outside on his own. Had to be carried in and out to use the bathroom. He would not come in. He had to have a long line on his collar so we could catch him in the yard to bring him in. He eventually moved to an upstairs bedroom as far in the house as he could get from everyone else. It took about 4 months for him to move out of that room on his own and stare at us between the banisters. It took a year for him to go out the door on his own. He barked maniacally at anyone who looked at him. We decided no training, no socialization. Just calm existence. He liked 2 things. My other dogs and dog walks although anything man made terrified him. Somehow my other 2 dogs knew and so they walked on either side of him like railings and he was happy as a clam bouncing between their bodies as they went for walks.
This dog really needed calm confident dogs to show him that humans and their household were OK. He hero worshiped my other dogs. Us he ignored or feared. Now he is a velcro dog. Follows me everywhere. Sleeps against my leg, knows basic commands like sit and down, comes when called, stands calmly while I talk to people (we ask everyone to not pet him), occasionally will go meet someone if I'm talking to them long enough, walks well on a leash and enjoys being out and about, uses the dog door etc. But he would never have gotten to where he is without being able to read from my other dogs that we were OK, the situations he was in were OK, that man made objects were OK etc.
From what I've seen there is always a good home for a dog. Sometimes it takes alot to get there. An inexperienced foster or rescue can easily make a poor placement. I've done it myself. Especially when one is new and aren't familiar with the breadth of types of homes out there it is easy to grab the first opportunity. As I gained more experience the better I got at turning people down who desperately wanted a particular dog but were not a good fit for the dog.
In my opinion you are not a good fit for this dog. It is not because you are not lovely compassionate people. You are. In fact if I were working with you I would love to find you the right dog. But I would really want you to make the hard decision to return this dog. This dog deserves to be happy and having him in a home that makes him uncomfortable is not going to make him happy.
Believe me when I say there is a retired couple who wants an older large black dog to scare off potential intruders, there is an older lady who wants a calm companion, there is a gay couple who wants a companion for their older dog who just lost it's older companion etc. Black dogs are the most intimidating even if they are marshmallows. There is a market for that in the placement community. A mature dog that doesn't eat shoes, the remote control etc is also a dog that has a market.
Once the rescue starts advertising him properly he will find his mark. Their mistake was advertising that he was a family dog who loves all people. So they got the wrong audience. If they advertise him as what he is he will find the right placement. Something like "Large black dog with intimidating presence but loves all adults. Calm in the home, will not destroy possessions. Has not lived in a home environment prior to the foster so would be best with another canine companion to show him the ropes." Or if he truly loves dogs then the last line should be "Loves dogs and should have another canine companion to keep him company."
Can you see how this description of his ideal home just doesn't fit your household and never will? I'm not trying to be harsh but his reality is he will be stuck living in a house with kids who scare or bother him for the rest of his life if he stays with you.
Due to the anonymity of an online forum I'm going to say something that I haven't been able to say to my poor placements. Please bring the dog back. I have had basically your family adopt a foster of mine. Parents with 2 young girls. Dog was not with me long enough to evaluate with children. We have none. Dog was calm, small size, walked well on a leash and well tolerated the children meeting him. A couple of weeks after the adoption the dog snapped at one of the girls friends who was sitting on the couch with her but the dog was between the girl and the friend.
I so wanted that dog to come back for a better placement but they wanted to try. They wanted to train. They were lovely people. A couple of years later the dog did come back. The family got a divorce, moved to an apartment, kicked the dog off of sleeping on the bed because of new comforters and the dog started to bark all day in the apt. We placed the dog with a gay couple, no kids, who had adopted another dog out of the same hoarding situation. The dog was now living with 2 adults, could sleep on the bed, and had his best friend back from his original home.
There really is a better home for this dog.
Another case in point. We had a foster dog in a home with lovely people. Family with kids, another dog and a cat. But the foster dog was not thriving. Basically he stayed under the coffee table all day hiding. House was simply too active for him. I went to pick him up after he was there for 4 months with no progress. They were very concerned that he was not going to find a good home. They asked if I planned to keep him. I said no but he would find a good home. They said he always had a place with them if for some reason he could not find a place. As soon as I put him in the car crate he lost bowl control because he was so terrified.
Got him to my house and he was frozen. Sat in a crate with the door open. He just watched my two older female dogs who basically left him alone. He would not go outside on his own. Had to be carried in and out to use the bathroom. He would not come in. He had to have a long line on his collar so we could catch him in the yard to bring him in. He eventually moved to an upstairs bedroom as far in the house as he could get from everyone else. It took about 4 months for him to move out of that room on his own and stare at us between the banisters. It took a year for him to go out the door on his own. He barked maniacally at anyone who looked at him. We decided no training, no socialization. Just calm existence. He liked 2 things. My other dogs and dog walks although anything man made terrified him. Somehow my other 2 dogs knew and so they walked on either side of him like railings and he was happy as a clam bouncing between their bodies as they went for walks.
This dog really needed calm confident dogs to show him that humans and their household were OK. He hero worshiped my other dogs. Us he ignored or feared. Now he is a velcro dog. Follows me everywhere. Sleeps against my leg, knows basic commands like sit and down, comes when called, stands calmly while I talk to people (we ask everyone to not pet him), occasionally will go meet someone if I'm talking to them long enough, walks well on a leash and enjoys being out and about, uses the dog door etc. But he would never have gotten to where he is without being able to read from my other dogs that we were OK, the situations he was in were OK, that man made objects were OK etc.
From what I've seen there is always a good home for a dog. Sometimes it takes alot to get there. An inexperienced foster or rescue can easily make a poor placement. I've done it myself. Especially when one is new and aren't familiar with the breadth of types of homes out there it is easy to grab the first opportunity. As I gained more experience the better I got at turning people down who desperately wanted a particular dog but were not a good fit for the dog.
In my opinion you are not a good fit for this dog. It is not because you are not lovely compassionate people. You are. In fact if I were working with you I would love to find you the right dog. But I would really want you to make the hard decision to return this dog. This dog deserves to be happy and having him in a home that makes him uncomfortable is not going to make him happy.
Believe me when I say there is a retired couple who wants an older large black dog to scare off potential intruders, there is an older lady who wants a calm companion, there is a gay couple who wants a companion for their older dog who just lost it's older companion etc. Black dogs are the most intimidating even if they are marshmallows. There is a market for that in the placement community. A mature dog that doesn't eat shoes, the remote control etc is also a dog that has a market.
Once the rescue starts advertising him properly he will find his mark. Their mistake was advertising that he was a family dog who loves all people. So they got the wrong audience. If they advertise him as what he is he will find the right placement. Something like "Large black dog with intimidating presence but loves all adults. Calm in the home, will not destroy possessions. Has not lived in a home environment prior to the foster so would be best with another canine companion to show him the ropes." Or if he truly loves dogs then the last line should be "Loves dogs and should have another canine companion to keep him company."
Can you see how this description of his ideal home just doesn't fit your household and never will? I'm not trying to be harsh but his reality is he will be stuck living in a house with kids who scare or bother him for the rest of his life if he stays with you.
You rock, thank you, thank you!
I too have encountered (volunteering) small rescues who have the BEST intentions but misunderstand what some dogs need to thrive. Also having been in the OP's position twice, I completely relate.
OP your next to last post reinforced what I had already inferred about you; you are someone who "gets" it and who is prudent rather than impulsive (SO MANY fools "fall in loooove" and take a dog on impulse without any thought as to its needs) and has a loving heart for animals as well. If you do return him as I hope you do, I so hope you get another dog -or two, as the above quoted poster stated, a well adjusted dog "mentor" can be hugely helpful-and do NOT feel bad nor guilty for your sincere attempt to take on a a dog that ended up a poor fit. This is a situation wherein no one is really at fault.
Just curious as to the breed of the dog. If you plan on giving the dog up, know the laws of your area. There might be a reporting requirement if it's known the dog bit someone, which could turn into a death sentence. A long time ago we turned in a dog that bit a neighbor's child. Animal Control euthanized him immediately.
OP, I agree with the advice below, and one of the major reasons is that getting another dog right away will enforce the reasoning you give your daughter, that it was just 'time' for this dog to be moved along, getting ready for his forever home and now it's time to help another dog. This position will help her to resolve her naturally very mixed feelings about what happened. In my opinion...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverItAll
You rock, thank you, thank you!
I too have encountered (volunteering) small rescues who have the BEST intentions but misunderstand what some dogs need to thrive. Also having been in the OP's position twice, I completely relate.
OP your next to last post reinforced what I had already inferred about you; you are someone who "gets" it and who is prudent rather than impulsive (SO MANY fools "fall in loooove" and take a dog on impulse without any thought as to its needs) and has a loving heart for animals as well. If you do return him as I hope you do, I so hope you get another dog -or two, as the above quoted poster stated, a well adjusted dog "mentor" can be hugely helpful-and do NOT feel bad nor guilty for your sincere attempt to take on a a dog that ended up a poor fit. This is a situation wherein no one is really at fault.
OP, you say it's not a black or white issue. You can explain and rationalize and wonder whose fault it was, the child's or the dog's, 'til the cows come home.
However, if you keep this dog and he rips your child's face off (she was lucky the first time), how are you going to feel then? How will she feel when her parents failed to protect her? Will CPS take custody of your daughter? She already is terrified of dogs- what if she is permanently maimed because of your inability to take a stand? You did have fair warning. Of course they'll have to euthanize the dog at that point.
There are also many examples of the family pet killing children- you are aware of those I assume.
I'm not being "mean" here or cruel to pets, just trying to get you to see the potential reality of your situation. Some dogs are cute and fluffy- some are not. All are animals who act instinctively.
Maybe this seems like a hard decision, but taking back a dog who's not good with kids is not the hardest challenge you'll face in life. Good luck to your daughter & you.
Some dogs do not like being petted on the head. I was talking to my friend at her house. We were sitting on the sofa and I was casually petting her Rottweiler's head who was sitting between us. All of a sudden he lunges at me for no reason that I could ascertain at that time. Thank God my friend was quick to grab his collar as he was going right for my face. I couldn't understand it at the time, I was hurting him, he had met me a few times before but I have since found out that some dogs see petting them on top of the head as a form of aggression.
Unfortunately that situation has made me very afraid of any dog bigger than a Cocker Spaniel.
I just want to say this, we are patient. I'm not sure how you could have inferred that we weren't. Any other issues, we would tackle. The separation anxiety is definitely an issue, but we could (and would) work on that, for as long as it took. Those types of quirks, I'd handle, for my dear pet.
But this is different, and I know it, I'm not oblivious.
I meant nothing by that, I was going by your description of how the poor thing was a donor dog for 5 years. He probably isn't socialized very well after living in those conditions. It will take a very patient and kind family to bring him along slowly. Good luck.
Got him to my house and he was frozen. Sat in a crate with the door open. He just watched my two older female dogs who basically left him alone. He would not go outside on his own. Had to be carried in and out to use the bathroom. He would not come in. He had to have a long line on his collar so we could catch him in the yard to bring him in. He eventually moved to an upstairs bedroom as far in the house as he could get from everyone else. It took about 4 months for him to move out of that room on his own and stare at us between the banisters. It took a year for him to go out the door on his own. He barked maniacally at anyone who looked at him. We decided no training, no socialization. Just calm existence. He liked 2 things. My other dogs and dog walks although anything man made terrified him. Somehow my other 2 dogs knew and so they walked on either side of him like railings and he was happy as a clam bouncing between their bodies as they went for walks.
This so reminds me of my Lucy! I rescued her after she'd been living at the rescue for 3 years. She is a black-and-tan coonhound, and was so reserved that nobody wanted her. She was adopted three different times and brought back.
We got her, and the first day she stood in the corner frozen. I left a doggie bed there and the next morning she was sitting on it but would not move, just shook and shivered uncontrollably. Any loud noise and she would lose control of her bowels.
I kept her with me in my bedroom, and had a doggie door in my sliding glass window, and eventually she learned to go through it, but it took weeks. Then we decided to get another dog for her, and we got Daisy, who is a very confident Feist, and loves to play, but is also very protective.
Now, five years later, Lucy acts like a fairly normal dog as long as she is around just us, but if there are any strangers, she prefers to sit on the bed in my room and we never see her in the yard when we have folks over. She holds it all day.
Loud noises still terrify her, and she sits shaking, but she does stay in place on the bed, which is a big deal compared to before, when she would bolt.
Keep dog away from the children until the trainer comes back from maternity leave to evaluate him. That is, if she is experienced with recognizing signs of aggression, triggers, etc. If not, you will need to find one.
Once his behavior is confirmed by the trainer that he is not a good fit for families with kids, then you must return him to the rescue.
Only if the trainer finds that the possibility that this won't happen again is so high and the risk of incidence being so small with minor to no damage, can you keep this dog AND work with the dog.
Emotions are not black and white. Your decisions must be based on common sense and logic.
For me, that is what I would do rather than lament on what ifs, what could have been, etc. I am also a big believer in getting confirmations from experienced, third party trained professionals before making a decision that I might regret later. So when a final decision is made, my heart is at peace and the guilt is not gnawing at me as bad. Case in point: I adopted a very sick bearded dragon but did not know she was ill at the time. I held off from humane euthanasia and spent hundreds of dollars just so I can get the confirmation from the vet that there is no hope. She was a young, very friendly lizard who needed to catch a break in an abused, neglected life. She was relatively healthy except for her mysterious mass. As soon as the bloodwork results came in showing that the mass was fungi, I brought her in immediately to put her out of her misery.
Yes, black senior dogs are difficult to place. It is not impossible. Whether or not you keep this dog just because you do not want to contribute to the homeless pet statistics, your action will make no difference in the big scheme of things. The dog, whatever age or color it may be, that you adopt will have a great life for the next 10 or so years. That is the difference you can make. You can't save them all and adopting and keeping one out of the fear that he would not get adopted again, etc... You are not helping you, your family or the next potential dog that could have been a better fit for your home.
Fyi, as a former volunteer myself, don't trust every word a rescue says about their dogs. Do your own homework, look around without the rescue people telling you who their favorite pet of the month is, and make a choice that your family is comfortable with. Fyi, I find labs and lab mixes to be great for families with kids. Most are goofballs and loves children.
Just curious as to the breed of the dog. If you plan on giving the dog up, know the laws of your area. There might be a reporting requirement if it's known the dog bit someone, which could turn into a death sentence. A long time ago we turned in a dog that bit a neighbor's child. Animal Control euthanized him immediately.
I think she just said it was an old, big black dog. For all the people who dismissively say "just rehome him" they aren't being realistic. Unless the OP has a wide network of dog-loving friends to rehome him herself, the dog's chances are really low, he'll probably get one week before they put him down.
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