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Old 05-13-2015, 09:34 AM
 
2,777 posts, read 1,782,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
So what are the people doing to improve their financial situation and education? Or is that someone else's job.
This boring narrative is exhausting. You're not talking about actual people, you're talking about a stereotype.
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Old 05-13-2015, 10:31 AM
 
41,110 posts, read 25,750,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spatula City View Post
This boring narrative is exhausting. You're not talking about actual people, you're talking about a stereotype.
Ok.. so.... what AAARE the people doing to improve their financial situation and education? Or do they think complaining will get someone else to do it for them? and think will work.
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Old 05-13-2015, 10:49 AM
 
2,777 posts, read 1,782,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Ok.. so.... what AAARE the people doing to improve their financial situation and education? Or do they think complaining will get someone else to do it for them? and think will work.
Which people are you talking about, specifically? Do you want to look at everyone currently on welfare or working a dead end job on a case by case basis and decide whether they're trapped by their circumstances or just plain lazy?
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Old 05-13-2015, 11:15 AM
 
9,639 posts, read 6,022,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spatula City View Post
This 'let them eat cake' mentality is exactly what is killing our society, and it is rooted in a deep ignorance that equates wealth with inherent superiority. The monarchs thought exactly as you did... they resented the poor for being poor while depending on their poverty to maintain their own extravagant standards of living.

There are plenty of reasons why improving the welfare of the people as a whole is good for everyone.

And there are plenty of reasons why wealth imbalance is bad for the economy, bad for morale, bad for security and crime, bad for health and bad for the planet.

If we continue going the way we are going, the whole thing is going to implode.
Maybe it should implode.

I'd argue a growing sense of entitlement is more likely killing our society than the "let them eat cake" mentality.

As much as I'm not a fan of Reagan and would argue at length many of our problems today were seeded by his time in office, I do agree when he said "If you want more of something, subsidize it. If you want less of something, tax it.â€

We are increasingly subsidizing indolence while taxing those trying to succeed. We subsidize those that will not improve their lots in life. We subsidize big business. We tax small business, which are those looking to build something.

I had a job a couple years ago working for a property manager. There was this one specific individual that was on welfare. This individual was single, no kids, didn't work. Among many welfare programs he was on, the one that really gets me is that he was receiving $1,400/month from the city for his own 3 bedroom apartment. That's 75% of my 15 year mortgage payment on a 3800 sq foot house, the biggest (too big I know) one in the neighborhood.

Fast forward a couple years and I open a business. In order to do this...

- I have to this fee.
- I have to pay that fee.
- Oh you payed that fee, you also have to pay this tax on all your work stuff.
- Oh wait a minute, you missed a fee.
- Your employee needs that license? That'll be $3,000.
- Here's another fee that needs to be paid quarterly/annually.

Now the tax write-offs are great and all, but that doesn't make up for all the fees.

Now... I do believe in welfare programs. I'm not your cold hearted darwinist. However, I do believe there comes a point when it is too much. When you enable certain people to be lazy, they'll be lazy. Doesn't matter what training you give them, they will not care to better themselves.
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Old 05-13-2015, 12:07 PM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,692,777 times
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Not to get too far off topic... as a property manager I meet a wide spectrum of society... from people just starting out to those that are seasoned citizens.

Most people I have encountered with problems come down to either medical problems or poor choices.

On the other side... I have met some really driven people that have done unbelievably well... anyone remember the wave of Cambodians that settled in the Bay Area about 25 years ago?

These people came here with nothing other than a dream... one family made a living with an old truck doing landscaping with kids in tow... today... the mother and father still do landscaping... from their three kids... they have a Doctor, Lawyer and Engineer... almost all I know have their own business...

Opening a business is something native born Americans tend to shy away from....
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Old 05-13-2015, 01:50 PM
 
41,110 posts, read 25,750,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spatula City View Post
Which people are you talking about, specifically? Do you want to look at everyone currently on welfare or working a dead end job on a case by case basis and decide whether they're trapped by their circumstances or just plain lazy?
Obviously too lazy to change their circumstances. That! would take action and true, it is easier to have pity parties for yourself. News Flash... Pity parties won't change it.
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Old 05-13-2015, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,912,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Obviously too lazy to change their circumstances. That! would take action and true, it is easier to have pity parties for yourself. News Flash... Pity parties won't change it.
You do realize that many times they have to think of mortgage payment or this month's rent vs. this month's community college payment. Sometimes not changing is the best option on the game theory decision board. I mean while not ideal to lose the queen in chess, it don't mean you lost the game because of that one move. Right now they may have to put off the program because they can't get grant money and have more important bills to pay off (say hospital bills like myself.)
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Old 05-13-2015, 03:04 PM
 
41,110 posts, read 25,750,585 times
Reputation: 13868
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
You do realize that many times they have to think of mortgage payment or this month's rent vs. this month's community college payment. Sometimes not changing is the best option on the game theory decision board. I mean while not ideal to lose the queen in chess, it don't mean you lost the game because of that one move. Right now they may have to put off the program because they can't get grant money and have more important bills to pay off (say hospital bills like myself.)
I never got any grant money, I never got assistance. I worked, went to college and paid my rent along with the other bills all at the same time. So, the problem is??? Oh, I sacrificed to get where I am and they don't want to so now I'm supposed to sacrifice even more. No thanks.

They need to change their circumstances or they will struggle. It's their choice. Whining won't increase anyone's prosperity FORWARD.

Last edited by petch751; 05-13-2015 at 03:13 PM..
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Old 05-13-2015, 03:30 PM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,692,777 times
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If the deck is impossibly stacked... just how do people in the same circumstances overcome?

There will always be poor and rich... by definition.
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Old 05-13-2015, 03:42 PM
 
15,590 posts, read 15,684,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
For years Obama, Obama supporters and liberals ranted on about raising taxing on the 1% and now you don't want to admit it.


Sure I'll admit it. I support it. But that's not "punishing." Don't be over-dramatizing.
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