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Old 02-06-2017, 02:52 PM
 
18,823 posts, read 8,484,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
Why? Unless you are in the 99.9% income percentile odds are you are making less than you otherwise would be. The median income is running about 50% of where it should be relative to productivity and GDP/capita.
As a primary care doc I have made and saved more than I'll ever need. I have benefited in thousands of ways from cheaper foreign imported goods. I have benefited from our fiat money system, for instance Medicare payments. A significant amount being from deficit spending. And with displaced factory workers on Medicaid. I don't get rich from this welfare, but it helps pay the bills.
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Old 02-06-2017, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,668 posts, read 6,600,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
I have benefited in thousands of ways from cheaper foreign imported goods.
What you are failing to realize is that the price of saving maybe 2% of your expenses on cheaper imported goods was a 50% decline in your real income.
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Old 02-06-2017, 05:45 PM
 
4,150 posts, read 3,910,259 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
We as individuals and taxpayers mainly have the burden of Federal tax, not national debt per se. My taxes haven't gone up in 35 years. As taxpayers some of our Federal tax is used to pay for national debt interest. Doubled in 30 years, but not to any crisis level.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/...ir_expense.htm

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYOIGDA188S

When Trump is done IMO we will have national debt in the $30T range and will still be having these same discussions.
I think you are right. No way you can cut taxes without reducing spending. The money has to come from somewhere and deficit spending is where it will come from.
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Old 02-06-2017, 06:26 PM
 
204 posts, read 181,857 times
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How would you reduce any Debt or at least not make it worse ? Cut Spending.

How would you ensure every one contributed to reducing the debt ? Flat Tax on Income... No Deductions... No Loopholes

What makes it Fair and Balanced ? Use more Services Pay More, Use Less Pay Less.

Taxes: If I Have To Pay I Get A Say What It Goes Toward. My Money MY Choice, Your Money Your Choice.
Clothing, Education, Energy, Environment, Food, Healthcare, Infrastructure, Military, Retirement, Security, Shelter, Transportation
Government and Foreign Policy Should be the Smallest Expense

Bring Back The Draft. Its a Privilege to serve Not Just for The Military but ALL Civil Service Jobs.

If $15 is Good Enough for the Burger Flipper It should be enough for Our Military (currently $8) AND Congress ($100)
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Old 02-06-2017, 06:52 PM
 
18,823 posts, read 8,484,812 times
Reputation: 4132
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
What you are failing to realize is that the price of saving maybe 2% of your expenses on cheaper imported goods was a 50% decline in your real income.
My earnings are more related to central controls than anything. My savings from cheap imports has about nothing to do with my income. My expenses haven't gone up significantly in a long time. The office overhead has been fairly well locked in the last 17 years. And as I move toward retirement my life's expenses have dropped.
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Old 02-06-2017, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,668 posts, read 6,600,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
My savings from cheap imports has about nothing to do with my income.
I've pretty much concluded that this is too esoteric for most people to understand. But I'll give it another try.

Our perpetual trade deficit has been instrumental in the .01% taking all the productivity gains the last 40 years. It would have been impossible otherwise. It's gutted unions and depressed wages across the board. The median incomes of professionals has been flat for 40 years, it isn't just low income workers or manual laborers.

So even though you don't see any direct effect of imports on your income, the indirect effect is immense.
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Old 02-06-2017, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Formerly New England now Texas!
1,708 posts, read 1,100,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
There is almost insatiable demand for US Treasury bills. Why not fulfill it? Saudi Arabia exports oil, China exports consumer stuff, Germany exports luxury cars. The US exports debt. And it brings in money.
There is an unlimited demand as the Federal Reserve will buy as many Treasury notes as required to fund the U.S. budget. The money is invented with a mouse click today, earlier it required two entries into a ledger.
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Old 02-06-2017, 07:54 PM
 
13,005 posts, read 18,924,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
Yes you can, if the debt is denominated in DOLLARS. That the dollars are not backed by gold is irrelevant unless the debt is denominated in gold, which it is not. If I write a contract with you and promise to give you pieces of paper that I write "1 brownie point" on, and I keep up my end, no matter that the paper is not currency, I have kept up my end of the deal.

It is true that under the current system this will not happen, because dollars can only be borrowed into existence under current policy and there are not enough dollars to pay the debt off. However, we could return to an older system in which the country issues United States Notes, which come into existence debt-free, unlike the Federal Reserve Notes we use today.

Another possibility, however remote, is for the Fed to push interest rates negative for a very long time via Treasury auction bids while the government keeps a stack of physical cash in a secure location that will eventually be used to pay off the national debt. Current monetary policy would not allow this in any foreseeable-future scenario however.



Laws can be changed. The Coinage Act was part of a larger set of statutes that established physical metals as bases for various forms of currency but the silver/gold standard is no longer in effect.



Doesn't work that way. You're forgetting about inflation. Once money is not backed by physically limited assets there is nothing stopping a fully sovereign nation from printing money to the point that the real interest rates are negative, apart from the fear of economic destabilization.
Not likely. In fact one reason US Treasury notes are so popular is they pay positive interest.
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Old 02-06-2017, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,668 posts, read 6,600,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
Not likely. In fact one reason US Treasury notes are so popular is they pay positive interest.
The interest rate is always high enough to boost the US$ value and force our trade deficit. The *only* reason there is "insatiable desire" for US$ is because we are willing to absorb other country's production and make them rich. Of course they must accept US$ in exchange.
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Old 02-07-2017, 05:40 AM
 
2,673 posts, read 2,238,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
If the budget is perfectly balanced in good times, then there will be a deficit again the next time there's a war, depression, or emergency of some sort.

So why not just.... blow it out non-stop... spend like there's no tomorrow.... that's the logic?
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