Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So you're telling me there would be no problem for you to drive up to the oldest country club in your state and get a membership? That your wife can join Junior League in your town, purely on the basis of your being successful, hard working, morally upright people? Your son, should he be admitted to Yale, would be a shoo-in for Skull and Bones purely because he's a successful hard-working, morally upright son of successful, hard-working, morally upright parents?
Nope.
Social class is alive and well in America. And every other nation, state, county, city, and neighborhood on the face of the Earth.
Well Turf, all I can say is that if those are the things that you perceive as defining peoples class status, then I feel sorry for you. The only thing I can attribute to any of the institutions that you called out is pretentious self importance, and don't feel any need or desire to be associated with any of them. I mean really, what is this, high school - the popular kids vs the nerds? Come on man.
And my sons grades would probably get him at least a consideration at Yale, but I wouldn't send him there if it was free. I'd like him to turn out to be a good man, and a horribly overrated school like that wouldn't be my choice him because who he is is much more important to me than what the damn piece of paper they call a degree says.
I'll leave you with another quote to ponder:
“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.”
You're arguing about what ought to be. I'm telling you what is.
Did you ever see me say that people of higher social class are superior to those of lower social class? No, you didn't, because I didn't say it. Did you see me say that I aspire to upper-class social markers? No, you didn't.
You can argue that the US is a classless society where your social class is determined by what you achieve and the content of your character, you can say it's so till you're blue in the face, but it doesn't make it so.
I don't know you but I bet you are intellectually and morally superior to a whole raft of upper-class twits. Doesn't change the fact that they're in their social class and you're in yours.
Individual #1: A 39 year old ADN Nurse (2 year Associate's degree) who works at a hospital making $45K/year. However, she has made outside investments that nets her an additional yearly passive income of $155K/yr. Making her total yearly income $200K. Her net worth is $1.2 Million.
Or
Individual #2: The 49 year old director of operations at the same hospital making $140K/year. However, this individual holds a Phd in business management and a Masters in Economics. His networth is $900K.
This is really, really unlikely to happen.
Job type leads to a certain status. A lower paid office staffer might have a higher status than a much better compensated blue collar worker.
A lot of status goes back to behavior patterns and lifestyle choices. I'm a senior level individual contributor in an IT position. I grew up in a blue collar family and am from a largely working class area. I've lived in affluent suburban areas and fit in fine, but I'd have no idea how to fit in upper crust NYC.
Job type leads to a certain status. A lower paid office staffer might have a higher status than a much better compensated blue collar worker.
A lot of status goes back to behavior patterns and lifestyle choices. I'm a senior level individual contributor in an IT position. I grew up in a blue collar family and am from a largely working class area. I've lived in affluent suburban areas and fit in fine, but I'd have no idea how to fit in upper crust NYC.
Good post. To my way of thinking, class is something I arrange people in based on their behaviors, not their job. In fact, I don't think I've ever judged someone by what they do for a living. I know a lot of people that have better much jobs than I do that I wouldn't want in my house or around my family, and I know guys who work in sewer treatment plants that I have a ton of respect for. Class certainly isn't what you do, it's who you are, how you behave and your choices in life that matter to me.
As for "upper crust NY", you probably don't want to fit in there. I'm sure it would disappoint lol.
Doesn't change the fact that they're in their social class and you're in yours.
No, that just how YOU perceive it. I perceive it in a much different way. I'm sure there are many more people that perceive "class" the way you do than there are who see it like I do, which is why that perception dominates, but that doesn't make it right. In fact, I'd suggest that if the majority believe it, it's most likely wrong. Especially these days. Anyway, enough arguing, I've made my point and you've made yours. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
This is a silly question because there aren't any nurses out there making 155k passive yearly income consistently off of 1.2 mil net worth. Making that kind of passive income consistently would require more net worth, which would mean that this nurse was most likely a trust fund kid from a wealthy family, and that changes the whole "status" thing considerably.
Just some clarification guys (for everyone saying that the example I gave in the OP is unrealistic). I was very aware of that when I typed it up. I'm not concerned with the accuracy of the example from the viewpoint of us in CD who realize how the passive income/networth makes no sense. I just wanted to make an example where the income and networth between the two "people" in my example were far apart but not ridiculously so because that would make answering the question too easy.
So let me ask it in another way: If the common everyday American (who don't know as much as the CD crowd regarding the accurate stats and definition regarding income, class etc) were given the example of the two people in my example, who do you think they would consider to be more successful?
Another way to put it is do you think the average American has more admiration for? Someone who makes more money but has less education/job prestige or someone who makes less money (but not by a wide margin as in my example) but has more education/job prestige? Please keep in mind that this is why I referred to my question in terms of STATUS and not class. As many have pointed out, social "class" has some general qualifiers that are agreed upon by economists. Status is a lot more subjective and will have different qualifiers if the average American is the judge.
Btw thanks for all the great response. I was really looking for some well thought out opinions on the subject and I did. I enjoyed read all of your thoughts and comments on the subject.
As someone else said it is EXACTLY how it is here. The only difference is how its handled here. People are a lot more tactful in the US regarding social status/class. Its like the saying goes in other countries "oh you Americans never say what you mean!!" American's are a bit more indirect in their mannerisms. And yes I'm form the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
It's an out-dated artificial construct created by religion of all things.
Aside from the Media, Intelligentsia and Blue-Bloods, no one is actually concerned with class.
For your typical American, that kind of thinking went out the window decades ago.
While Americans, at least the intelligent ones, are focused on self-improvement and whatever comforts they might want, they are not focused on class.
Yes its outdated and artificial. However, that does not make it something that still does not exist. Social STATUS has always existed and always will whether we like it or not. The people that are not concerned about it are just the ones who cannot gain any advantage from it. Its part of human nature to discard things as "irrelevant" or "not important" if they cannot excel at it and derive any value from it. Here is a silly but accurate example:
-Hypothetically speaking if you knew for sure you could have been among the best baseball players in the US you would find it important to play and increase your skills in baseball. Even if you hated sports and just wanted to be an artist you would do this. Why? Because you know that if you could be one of the best you can earn millions in a few years and then pursue your dream of being an artist with complete freedom (never having to worry about money). Obviously you would not be "concerned" with playing baseball if you had no chance of excelling at it.
Replace "baseball" with anything and the example above will stay the same because the example is based on human nature. Most people are not "concerned" with social status because either instinctively or purposefully they know that they will never increase their social status enough to where it will give them any benefits. The people that genuinely don't care about status are a very small minority. Even in the "land of opportunity" most Americans know their place. They know they will never amount to anything great. Its much easier for them to pretend that they are not concerned with status then to admit that they want it but just cant get it.
Social status- if you can say and do stuff I can’t and you can get a job or school and I can’t
You are of a higher social class than me or are a democrat
My question is related to social STATUS in the USA. I'm sure many of you are aware of all the common categories (income, education, profession etc.) that experts evaluate to create a general census regarding how to determine social CLASSin the USA:
First, I'm wonder if anyone knows anything regarding how much weight each category play's in determining social class. What I mean is that I'm aware that there is no concrete matrix that every expert goes by. However, they all generally agree on what factor's determine social class. So is there a general consensus among experts regarding which categories have more "weight" in determining who is of a higher class in US society?
For example, are there professions that hold such weight that regardless of income that individual will always be held as an "upper class/upper middle class?" Or the opposite. Are there professions that have such low status that regardless of income a person will always be considered at best "middle class" when holding such jobs?
No, certain jobs may hold prestige, but you won't be considered upper class/upper middle class if you don't earn what people in that class earn (or have a certain wealth outside of regular annual earnings).
Quote:
Originally Posted by griffon652
Second, based on the above information, what is your personal opinion (or opinion based on what you learned from what the experts say) on who would hold more esteem/respect/admiration (as in social STATUS) between the following two individuals among the majority of common Americans (as in not the experts) if evaluating these two solely on the information below?
---------------------------
Individual #1: A 39 year old ADN Nurse (2 year Associate's degree) who works at a hospital making $45K/year. However, she has made outside investments that nets her an additional yearly passive income of $155K/yr. Making her total yearly income $200K. Her net worth is $1.2 Million.
Or
Individual #2: The 49 year old director of operations at the same hospital making $140K/year. However, this individual holds a Phd in business management and a Masters in Economics. His networth is $900K.
Many snobs will view individual #2 in higher regard due to the level of formal education, salary, and net worth. I would look up to individual #1 more who, despite having less formal education, has managed to be very well off, earning both more per year than individual #1 and having a higher net worth. And she is 10 years younger to boot.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
