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Again. You show how clueless most people are. Most Skilled trades are in construction. They are the same thing. Plumbers and electricians are construction workers!
You were talking about home construction, having a home building company. It’s not that difficult to start your own business as a plumber or an electrician. You need an LLC and insurance plus whatever equipment you need, that’s it.
Guess what. I have 14 years in the construction industry, with 5 of that on the management side where we oversee projects from start to end and manage the subcontractors. What are your qualifications?
https://www.nvoicepay.com/resources/...ompanies-fail/ While roughly half of all small businesses fail within just five years, the statistics are much worse for construction companies, with only 36.4 percent ever reaching their fifth year of business. In fact, of all industries, construction has the lowest success rate, and here's why.
This is just 5 years in. After 10 years its something like 90% failure rate just for a normal business. Owning a construciton company requires a totally different skillset than working as a tradesman. You can be good at one and not good at the other.
I can't believe you expect anyone to take you seriously saying being a tree trimmer is a good job that pays well. Show me the average pay for a tree trimmer.
And I'm not saying we shoudl take away choices. I'm just debunking the false information out there on trades.
The entire premise of the thread is that despite a shortage of skilled trades, we should not increase the number of training programs in skilled trades. You are advocating taking away choices. I’m asking, what is the alternative for kids who don’t go to college? Should they all just drive for Amazon flex? There should be no alternatives in other fields that don’t require college? That’s the premise of the thread.
Again, no one is telling the kid in honors physics that he should be a plumber instead of an aerospace engineer. But there are a lot of kids who don’t go to college and who aren’t going to go to college, and for these kids learning a trade is a good alternative. And no one has offered another alternative here. If every kid in the country decided to go to college and get a stem degree, then that would be glutted too in any case.
My great-nephew is a high school graduate and served four years in the Marines, and has zero marketable skills to show for any of it. I think he’d be a lot better off if he knew how to fix cars or trim trees, cut hair or fix an air conditioner and I don’t really understand arguing against that. He always knew he didn’t want college but because demand was so high he couldn’t get into vo-tech and instead wasted 4 years sitting in academic classes that only equipped him to be an Amazon Flex driver.
A lot of kids go to college and never get a job in their degree field. Yet no one is talking about we should take away their choices by eliminating every subject that’s not STEM, you’re only talking about taking away the choice is for vocational training for a trade and I don’t get it. If there are shortages in certain fields, and non-college bound kids who need jobs I don’t see what is wrong with providing the training for these kids to fill those shortages.
The entire premise of the thread is that despite a shortage of skilled trades, we should not increase the number of training programs in skilled trades. You are advocating taking away choices. I’m asking, what is the alternative for kids who don’t go to college? Should they all just drive for Amazon flex? There should be no alternatives in other fields that don’t require college? That’s the premise of the thread.
Again, no one is telling the kid in honors physics that he should be a plumber instead of an aerospace engineer. But there are a lot of kids who don’t go to college and who aren’t going to go to college, and for these kids learning a trade is a good alternative. And no one has offered another alternative here. If every kid in the country decided to go to college and get a stem degree, then that would be glutted too in any case.
My great-nephew is a high school graduate and served four years in the Marines, and has zero marketable skills to show for any of it. I think he’d be a lot better off if he knew how to fix cars or trim trees, cut hair or fix an air conditioner and I don’t really understand arguing against that. He always knew he didn’t want college but because demand was so high he couldn’t get into vo-tech and instead wasted 4 years sitting in academic classes that only equipped him to be an Amazon Flex driver.
A lot of kids go to college and never get a job in their degree field. Yet no one is talking about we should take away their choices by eliminating every subject that’s not STEM, you’re only talking about taking away the choice is for vocational training for a trade and I don’t get it. If there are shortages in certain fields, and non-college bound kids who need jobs I don’t see what is wrong with providing the training for these kids to fill those shortages.
I agree that our middle and high school systems must be reformed allowing those who are not interested in college or similar better/more vocation heavy pathways.
I agree that our middle and high school systems must be reformed
allowing those who are not interested in college or similar better/more vocation heavy pathways.
It needs to be far more proactive than just allowing what an 11year old might opt for.
In fact that is probably the worst way to go about it all.
The other key point is that it doesn't have to be, shouldn't be, such a binary decision as has largely been the case.
There should be room for and an expectation of shifting between; for some and with clear protocols to do so.
A lot of ignorant people are ranting about how our colleges need to be restructured to provide more vocational training - aka the trades - plumbing, electricians, and so on.
Unlike the traditional trades (plumber, electrician) there is a shortage of licensed, niche technicians in many fields, such as:
HVAC tech
Respiratory therapist
Medical lab technician
Robotics technician
ASE Automotive tech (cars are increasingly high tech, requires more than just turning wrenches)
and more
To be globally competitive, America needs to educate and train not just engineers and scientists at universities, we also need a strong pool of technicians trained at the vocational level.
We've got plenty of engineering and scientific horsepower to design a Tesla car. But when the embedded computer controller goes out, who is going to fix it? Or on many high tech assembly lines around the country: when the robot breaks down, who is going to fix it?
Unlike the traditional trades (plumber, electrician) there is a shortage of licensed, niche technicians in many fields, such as:
HVAC tech
Respiratory therapist
Medical lab technician
Robotics technician
ASE Automotive tech (cars are increasingly high tech, requires more than just turning wrenches)
and more
To be globally competitive, America needs to educate and train not just engineers and scientists at universities, we also need a strong pool of technicians trained at the vocational level.
We've got plenty of engineering and scientific horsepower to design a Tesla car. But when the embedded computer controller goes out, who is going to fix it? Or on many high tech assembly lines around the country: when the robot breaks down, who is going to fix it?
Both in my primary residence city and my vacation residence city:
Rough carpenters are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
Finish carpenters are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
HVAC techs are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
Tile setters are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
Electricians are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
Home automation techs (low voltage license) are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
Masons are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
Granite counter installers are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
Custom cabinet fabricators are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
Roofers are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
Not to mention private jet & airplane mechanics are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
BTW, why in the world would you ever repair an embedded controller? You just replace it.
Both in my primary residence city and my vacation residence city:
Rough carpenters are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
Finish carpenters are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
HVAC techs are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
Tile setters are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
Electricians are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
Home automation techs (low voltage license) are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
Masons are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
Granite counter installers are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
Custom cabinet fabricators are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
Roofers are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
Not to mention private jet & airplane mechanics are in high demand and can write their own ticket.
BTW, why in the world would you ever repair an embedded controller? You just replace it.
What do you mean by "write their own ticket"?? Thats vauge and misleading. The bottom line is most of those listed don't make much per hour. Google it if you disagree. Many of those are mostly non union where for every 1 "carpenter" or "elevtrician" you have 8 other guys that are technically carpenters but are mostly just laborers or helpers making $12-$15 per hour. OKay wages if you're other option is walmart, but not good otherwise. Not to mention the physical nature of the job wears you down.
While ZipRecruiter is seeing hourly wages as high as $31.01 and as low as $9.86, the majority of Roofer wages currently range between $15 (25th percentile) to $23 (75th percentile) across the United States. Roofing is seasonal also, so they aren't working for a quarter of the year! So much for "Writing your own ticket."
While ZipRecruiter is seeing hourly wages as high as $29.09 and as low as $10.58, the majority of Carpenter wages currently range between $17 (25th percentile) to $24 (75th percentile) across the United States.
BTW, why in the world would you ever repair an embedded controller? You just replace it.
It's not always simply plug and play. The tech may have to download and install firmware, follow electrostatic damage protocols, know how to troubleshoot other components that have caused the controller to fry, know how to use a logic probe, an oscilloscope, etc.
I agree that our middle and high school systems must be reformed allowing those who are not interested in college or similar better/more vocation heavy pathways.
Where I grew up they did have a vocational option. I'm not sure how many other schools have this, but my city had it.
Where I grew up they did have a vocational option. I'm not sure how many other schools have this, but my city had it.
As I said, there are many more kids that want to go then there are schools. My great nephew was not able to get into our county’s vo-tech high school because so many kids applied that they had to use a lottery system to select them. One vocational high school in a county of half a million people. We need more of them, IMO. The thread OP is against having more of them regardless of demand.
I notice you keep pooh-poohing everyone’s career suggestions, however you are not offering any alternative to vocational training for kids that aren’t going to college either. I just don’t understand the argument that they shouldn’t have a non-college path as an option. Of course any parent should help their child research any training vs just taking a course blindly, but to say they shouldn’t have the opportunity to learn a trade because you don’t think they are worthwhile is a bit arrogant sounding in a “let them eat cake” sort of way.
My job in therapy is hard on my body too (lots of morbidly obese people to try to stand up). Some degree jobs are hard on your body. Some vocational trades are not hard on your body. Again you keep responding as if the only things that they will train for are construction type trades, but there are a lot of things they teach in vocational schools these days and not all of them make you a cripple by age 50 (a lot have been mentioned by others but you ignore them). Sitting on your butt for eight or nine hours a day isn’t healthy either by the way. My fiancé, who installs tile mostly for commercial buildings is not union makes a heck of a lot more than $15 an hour, and if he didn’t know how to do this he would probably be working at AutoZone or something. It’s not like if he didn’t do this he would’ve become a doctor.
Last edited by ocnjgirl; 09-10-2020 at 02:19 PM..
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