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The great thing about our system is that anybody can become rich, you just have to know how to invest (or start your own business)
Anybody is NOT the same as everybody. Would you agree to stand neck deep in a cesspool as long as there is a minuscule chance for you to get above and take a dump on those below? Many slaves in Rome worked their way to freedom and got their own slaves. Thus, slavery is the best system under the sun, right?
Those Goratio Alger like rag to riches stories are good for pacifying the less successful crowds only and only if the wage cesspool where they stand is not too full.
If everybody in this country had a college degree, then you would need Phd's and masters degrees just to find decent jobs because of the percentages.
Actually, getting a Ph.D. may make you chronically unemployable. If you don't land an appropriate to a Ph.D. job (which is not easy at all), you are screwed jobwise. Employers would rather hire a B.S. than a washed out from his field Ph.D. (stands no chances). Always make sure that your resume is tweakable as to remove those 3 dirty letters P.h.D. without looking suspicious, that is if you want to eat and sleep in a bed.
I have known millionaires, one dresses like a homeless person and drives an old truck with 200K miles on it. You would never know he owns millions in commercial real estate. And I have know others who drive the rolls royces. And yes, they are both cheap. One is just cheaper than the other one.
Yes, Rich people are stingy - I know, I have worked for several. You just cannot judge what someone's net worth is by how they act or how they dress or what they drive.
Anybody is NOT the same as everybody. Would you agree to stand neck deep in a cesspool as long as there is a minuscule chance for you to get above and take a dump on those below? Many slaves in Rome worked their way to freedom and got their own slaves. Thus, slavery is the best system under the sun, right?
Those Goratio Alger like rag to riches stories are good for pacifying the less successful crowds only and only if the wage cesspool where they stand is not too full.
Well to fix what you are proposing, we can all live like the Indians did (which really wouldn't be that bad of a life in actuality). The males are hunters and bring home the food (they also protect the village from invasion) and the females gather water, watch after camp, etc. In this society there is no money, every person has a their FAIR share of work but they don't over work. Also there are no true houses, no central heating/air, nobody to build cars because who wants to do that for free? Nobody to provide energy because who is going to work on/build power plants for free? etc. To fix what you are saying we must live a very very simplistic, caveman lifestyle. Plus there isn't slavery. Slavery is forcing people to do something they don't want to do and making them do it for hrs on end. You don't have to work, and for those that know what they're doing with their money...within a couple decades you can be financially independent living a very simple happy life (with all the luxuries that our society has to offer...ie internet, cars, planes, central heating, etc). The problem is people get stuck in wanting everything NOW, and they constantly want the new and best thing. The best thing a person can do is create a budget, buy the cheapest cell phone (because it is JUST a phone) buy the cheapest reliable car (and pay it off) and rent instead of own (because renting is cheaper than a mortgage, thus you can invest more money). Once you are in a position to provide a hefty down payment on a house, then you can own/get a mortgage. I never understood the concept of putting $40,000 down on a $250,000+ house. You just set yourself up for failure doing that. I'm trying to build wealth not lose it by paying interest to banks. Also the worst thing that happens when you rent is you can't pay the bills and you have to move out. If you can't pay your mortgage you lose your house (and the down payment and all the money you have put toward the principle). Buying a house that you can't reasonably pay off within a handful of years is where most people go wrong to begin with.
Last edited by hskrfan2187; 03-10-2010 at 09:28 PM..
I was not proposing anything just saying that anybody is not everybody and that pacifying a wage cesspool with Horatio Alger stories is possible only up to a point. If cesspool sludge level is too high the stories about boundless opportunities above stop doing its pacifying magic.
As for making responsible personal decisions which you think is cure it all, it's not that simple for simple reason you, as a wage unit, control very little, for 95% you are on mercy of the forces you don't even know they exist
So you think that if everybody made 50% down payment on his home, crisis no more? Somehow I greatly doubt that. For simple reason - in the system you live, sudden slump in borrowing eventually leads to bankruptcies to balance out monetary system. Let's solve the riddle, a banker loans you 100k and a banker wants back 200k in 30 years. Where would you get extra 100k to pay your debt off since a banker "injected" only 100k into economy on your behalf? If you'll solve the riddle, you'll see that borrowing slump inevitably results in (controlled) bankruptcy hike to balance things out (bail outs are reserved for too big to fall only).
And it's not all. Decreased borrowing = less consumption = less jobs, in other words, down payment 150k on 250k will be grossly inadequate if your job no more Then what kind of personal responsibility sermon would you preach? I'm just hinting on the simple fact that your rational and successful financial planning partially succeeded because the other guys were rather on the reckless side.
I was not proposing anything just saying that anybody is not everybody and that pacifying a wage cesspool with Horatio Alger stories is possible only up to a point. If cesspool sludge level is too high the stories about boundless opportunities above stop doing its pacifying magic.
As for making responsible personal decisions which you think is cure it all, it's not that simple for simple reason you, as a wage unit, control very little, for 95% you are on mercy of the forces you don't even know they exist
So you think that if everybody made 50% down payment on his home, crisis no more? Somehow I greatly doubt that. For simple reason - in the system you live, sudden slump in borrowing eventually leads to bankruptcies to balance out monetary system. Let's solve the riddle, a banker loans you 100k and a banker wants back 200k in 30 years. Where would you get extra 100k to pay your debt off since a banker "injected" only 100k into economy on your behalf? If you'll solve the riddle, you'll see that borrowing slump inevitably results in (controlled) bankruptcy hike to balance things out (bail outs are reserved for too big to fall only).
And it's not all. Decreased borrowing = less consumption = less jobs, in other words, down payment 150k on 250k will be grossly inadequate if your job no more Then what kind of personal responsibility sermon would you preach? I'm just hinting on the simple fact that your rational and successful financial planning partially succeeded because the other guys were rather on the reckless side.
Well yeah I understand that. Obviously if every person did that it would have a drastic effect on the economy. I was making a statement on an individual basis...if you as an individual did these things you would be successful. Obviously if everybody did it then it would be the norm and you would have to find some other way to get ahead (which as you stated would be harder because our economy would shrink due to less consumption). One thing that remains a constant is you can't think like everyone else if you want to be more than average. Like Mark Twain said..."Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it’s time to pause and reflect."
In this society there is no money, every person has a their FAIR share of work but they don't over work. Also there are no true houses, no central heating/air, nobody to build cars because who wants to do that for free? Nobody to provide energy because who is going to work on/build power plants for free?
1. I would never propose a system where everyone is demanded a certain level of work for communal ownership. An ideal system to me would reward a person for their work, but within reason of the lowest guy. However, the lowest guy would be required to maintain a minimum standard or he would starve. My proposals mostly center around removal of private ownership from capital. Therefore, all men would be equally as free as the next to obtain a good living from their own hand.
2. Technology can be successfully funded by the state. Just check out how many things have been invented by public universities, or in government facilities. In fact, it has been proven over the centuries that capitalism can actually be counter productive to technological advance, as it intentionally impeeds technology that would hurt their profits. If you dont believe this, find one major medical cure that was developed by private enterprise.....if you cant, that because there hasnt been. Pharmeceutical companies only treat the symptoms and arent interested in curing anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hskrfan2187
etc. To fix what you are saying we must live a very very simplistic, caveman lifestyle. Plus there isn't slavery. Slavery is forcing people to do something they don't want to do and making them do it for hrs on end.
Slavery is exactly what most people are in on a daily basis. They are forced to do a job they hate, and are likely overqualified for, for hours on end, under economic duress.
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Originally Posted by hskrfan2187
You don't have to work,
With the alternatives being, starving, begging, stealing, dumpster diving, or winning the lottery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hskrfan2187
and for those that know what they're doing with their money...within a couple decades you can be financially independent living a very simple happy life (with all the luxuries that our society has to offer...ie internet, cars, planes, central heating, etc).
This is not realistic for most people. In fact, only 7.8 million households are worth more then 1 million dollars out of of well over 100 million households nation wide. A good chunk of that have probably a quarter or more of it tied up in a house. My guess is, most of the millionaires probably dont even have enough to retire for more then 10-15 years, without selling their primary residence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hskrfan2187
The problem is people get stuck in wanting everything NOW, and they constantly want the new and best thing. The best thing a person can do is create a budget, buy the cheapest cell phone (because it is JUST a phone) buy the cheapest reliable car (and pay it off) and rent instead of own (because renting is cheaper than a mortgage, thus you can invest more money).
Renting is not always cheaper then owning, additionally, it depends on the return you are getting on your investment as to whether or not owning is smarter. This is a completely simplistic statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hskrfan2187
If you can't pay your mortgage you lose your house (and the down payment and all the money you have put toward the principle). Buying a house that you can't reasonably pay off within a handful of years is where most people go wrong to begin with.
This is an interesting statement, you bring up the fact of losing all the money you paid on the mortgage......isnt that exactly what you are doing on rent? You will never see a penny of any of that rent you paid ever again.
Home ownership, at any point, can be the better financial decision, depending on an individuals portfolio, investment goals and risks, and the market in general.
The quoted statement sums it up. Salaries have not kept up with the times. 20 years ago it may have seemed like a great income but not now.
How do you solve that though?
It is not necessarily "solvable" on a Macro level, but on the individual level, a known good path is cut the spending side of the equation. In general, at first avoid and then buy little to nothing from Corporate sources -- including or even especially, your housing, food, transportation . . . on and on. You will very quickly be very surplus on money, even with a relatively low income.
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