Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I was commenting on a poster saying college attendance is at an all time high.
High attendance isn't proof of low dropout rates.
They may not be dropping out at high rates, but we are not graduating top notch students.
We should be ashamed that the average reading/comprehension of Americans is at 8th grade level.
And what was it 30 years ago? Back when government documents were produced at a 4th grade reading level?
Has anyone ever thought to ask these young people why they drop out of school, what they want in life, and what the schools could have done to cause them to want to complete their education?
Suppose you get yourself hired to decide who shouldn't go to college. Look those parents in the eye and tell them their kid isn't "college material". Maybe you could do follow-up by picking their majors for them. My brother was a history major and had a good career in human resources.
Good for your brother. There are many thousands of history majors today that work at BestBuy or Starbucks.
I didn't say I wanted to deny anyone college nor choose their major. But I think kids (and their parents) are being seduced by people like our president that everyone deserves college. No they don't. They don't deserve to chase their dreams while going into massive debt and graduating with a degree that society (economy) judges nearly worthless.
If more people enroll in college and finish to graduate, that means colleges better get bigger. We'll need more lecturers, professors, more dorms, more of everything. I'm not convinced that's a good thing.
I didn't say I wanted to deny anyone college nor choose their major. But I think kids (and their parents) are being seduced by people like our president that everyone deserves college. No they don't. They don't deserve to chase their dreams while going into massive debt and graduating with a degree that society (economy) judges nearly worthless.
Society as a whole likes to talk that everyone needs to go to college. Politicians, teachers, and parents believe it's a must for people to go to college and still hold to the value that a college degree leads to a stable middle class background. That hasn't been true for a good long while now. Fact is most jobs only require a high school diploma and some training. Companies themselves need to invest in the American worker who will build a strong economy with the decent wage that is provided for them by the company in question. Send jobs overseas or only provide low paying jobs for people then you're going to continue to have a sick economy that isn't going to provide much of anything.
Kids only follow what they've been told to do. If they've been told since an early age that they need to go to college in order to get a better paying job to avoid working in a low paying job, then they're going to buy into that line of thinking. You can't point fingers at college graduates who just graduated with a degree that you think the economy deems worthless. People with good degrees are having a hard time trying to find a decent paying job too. Now, going into debt for a degree possibly could have been avoided. But students think if they get a degree and get a decent paying job (low to mid 30K sounds good for a starting salary), then the debt that has accumilated while going to college will be eliminated in x amount of time. Again, this is all a reflection of what kids have been hearing since they were in elementary school. You can also point out parents should have been more invested in how much a college degree is costing their children. They do/should have more economic judgement than someone who is only 22.
Has anyone ever thought to ask these young people why they drop out of school, what they want in life, and what the schools could have done to cause them to want to complete their education?
Love this right here.
I had a different reason for dropping out of school. I was bullied.
If you ask around,70% of kids who dropped out because of that IMO.
But it didn't stop me from my dream I went on to get a GED at 17,in 1999, and went to get my AAS in nursing 4 years later.
I believe that schools should have done something about the bullying,but they did nothing.
Come to think of it,all the people I know who dropped out of school were bullied.
This is as recently as 1999 to 2006
They were ? Do you have a link for that stat ? 4th grade..really ?
That would be 1982.
I don't think some people remember what a fourth grade reading level is. Comics are written at a forth grade reading level. What government documents are written like comics? Newspaper and magazine journalists have historically been taught to write their articles at a 10th - 12th grade reading level. So as to not alienate non-college educated readers. General government documents would probably follow the same rule. Specialized government documents, legal, scientific, medical etc., would obviously be written on a much higher level. Unless the document was written specifically for children or people with learning disabilities, there would be no reason to write it at less then a high school level.
Some examples of publicans and their reading levels.
Periodical Grade Level Circulation
Times of India 15 2,144,842
London Times 12 619,682
Los Angeles Times 12 1,292,274
Boston Globe 12 707,813
National Enquirer 12 2,760,000
Sydney Sun-Herald 12 393,000
China Daily 12 1,000,000+
Atlantic Monthly 11 1,500,000
Better Homes and Gardens 11 7,628,424
Atlanta Constitution 11 606,246
Cleveland Plain Dealer 11 479,131
San Jose Mercury News 11 298,067
New Yorker 10 1,900,000
New York Times 10 1,680,583
Washington Post 10 1,007,487
USA Today 10 2,665,815
TV Guide 9 13,200,000
The Sun (UK Tabloid) 9 3,541,002
Daily Mirror (UK Tabloid) 9 2,148,058
Harpers 9 230,159
Time 9 4,114,137
Reader's Digest 9 12,212,040
Society as a whole likes to talk that everyone needs to go to college. Politicians, teachers, and parents believe it's a must for people to go to college and still hold to the value that a college degree leads to a stable middle class background. That hasn't been true for a good long while now. Fact is most jobs only require a high school diploma and some training. Companies themselves need to invest in the American worker who will build a strong economy with the decent wage that is provided for them by the company in question. Send jobs overseas or only provide low paying jobs for people then you're going to continue to have a sick economy that isn't going to provide much of anything.
Kids only follow what they've been told to do. If they've been told since an early age that they need to go to college in order to get a better paying job to avoid working in a low paying job, then they're going to buy into that line of thinking. You can't point fingers at college graduates who just graduated with a degree that you think the economy deems worthless. People with good degrees are having a hard time trying to find a decent paying job too. Now, going into debt for a degree possibly could have been avoided. But students think if they get a degree and get a decent paying job (low to mid 30K sounds good for a starting salary), then the debt that has accumilated while going to college will be eliminated in x amount of time. Again, this is all a reflection of what kids have been hearing since they were in elementary school. You can also point out parents should have been more invested in how much a college degree is costing their children. They do/should have more economic judgement than someone who is only 22.
Ahhhhh....at last some true insight into this subject...and not a moment too soon! What the matter with the rest of you? Didn't you read that little blurb on why little girls have babies? What does somebody have to do, hit you with a 2X4? Wake-up.
a.) The American Educational System is NOT, I repeat, NOT about Education. It is about employment for people who say they want to teach, time structuring for kids we have no other place for and networking for the well-heeled. All the rest of this crap you churn until the cows come home, but its not going to change the facts.
b.) Kids do not now nor ever they ever HAD to have Education. A person can be given a job and trained to do XYZ task and thats it. Why in the HELL do you think the work force over in the PRC is so damn cheap???
They may be building sophisticated electrics but all Mr. Hong knows is that he has to screw so many screws into a board and pass it to the next station. For that he makes a couple of bucks and gets two meals each day. You think they need a College degree because he is working on a computer?
c.) You don't need a college degree to do some corporate job. Have you ever actually SEEN what Corporate executives do? NOTHING. They flit from place to place talking with other VIP-s and making decisions that impact millions of people. Know how they got into that position? Their family knew another family.
d.) Now the other end of the spectrum. Why doesn't little Juan want to stay in school? Because, HE DOESNT WANT TO!! Why would someone want to take on a ton of debt and scramble their brains to go out and fight with a bunch of other folks for the scraps that are left after the well-heeled get all the choice pickings. And you think little Juan's parent give a happy GD? Their doing all they can just to work and send money back to Central America.
e.) Lastly, let me tell you WHY we are having this discussion. We are talking about Education because we have been told that Education is important. Now....think REAL hard. WHO told you Education was important? Why, the folks who run the schools, of course. And the businesses need to have an educational system so that they have some rationale for ruling-out people who apply for jobs. The Medical profession needs an Educational system so that they can artificially limit the number of people who b ecome doctors and keep the salary scale inflated. The Government needs an Educational system because it is a fantastic way to play shell-games with financing. But pulllll-lease don't tell me Education is about educating people.
Ahhhhh....at last some true insight into this subject...and not a moment too soon! What the matter with the rest of you? Didn't you read that little blurb on why little girls have babies? What does somebody have to do, hit you with a 2X4? Wake-up.
a.) The American Educational System is NOT, I repeat, NOT about Education. It is about employment for people who say they want to teach, time structuring for kids we have no other place for and networking for the well-heeled. All the rest of this crap you churn until the cows come home, but its not going to change the facts.
b.) Kids do not now nor ever they ever HAD to have Education. A person can be given a job and trained to do XYZ task and thats it. Why in the HELL do you think the work force over in the PRC is so damn cheap???
They may be building sophisticated electrics but all Mr. Hong knows is that he has to screw so many screws into a board and pass it to the next station. For that he makes a couple of bucks and gets two meals each day. You think they need a College degree because he is working on a computer?
c.) You don't need a college degree to do some corporate job. Have you ever actually SEEN what Corporate executives do? NOTHING. They flit from place to place talking with other VIP-s and making decisions that impact millions of people. Know how they got into that position? Their family knew another family.
d.) Now the other end of the spectrum. Why doesn't little Juan want to stay in school? Because, HE DOESNT WANT TO!! Why would someone want to take on a ton of debt and scramble their brains to go out and fight with a bunch of other folks for the scraps that are left after the well-heeled get all the choice pickings. And you think little Juan's parent give a happy GD? Their doing all they can just to work and send money back to Central America.
e.) Lastly, let me tell you WHY we are having this discussion. We are talking about Education because we have been told that Education is important. Now....think REAL hard. WHO told you Education was important? Why, the folks who run the schools, of course. And the businesses need to have an educational system so that they have some rationale for ruling-out people who apply for jobs. The Medical profession needs an Educational system so that they can artificially limit the number of people who b ecome doctors and keep the salary scale inflated. The Government needs an Educational system because it is a fantastic way to play shell-games with financing. But pulllll-lease don't tell me Education is about educating people.
FWIW.
We have the winner of the "Talking Out of Your Ass" Award for the week and it's only Thursday.
Yep, thought so. Everybody wants to Pi$$ and moan about the kids not getting an education, but nobody wants to face the fact that education today is not desingned to prepare our children to function in today's world, it is designed to make politicians look good. Get the politics and the end-all, be-all tests out of the schools and design the classes to fit the needs of the students, and you will see a dramatic change in the graduation rate.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
