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My mother-in-law is retired from one of the poorest urban districts in the country. She spent the majority of her classroom time correcting behavior issues and breaking up fights. Parents (well, the mothers since daddy was long gone by then) would only show up for parent teacher conferences when they had "beef" with the teacher or another parent. The problem isn't the teachers, it's parents who do not socialize their children properly or place any kind of value on learning. Garbage in, garbage out.
My friends argument is a great teacher would be able to control the class and her public speaking ability would engage the class and the students would sit there engaged and interested in learning. As a result there would be no issues with acting out.
"If all or our teachers were excellent we would not be faced with failing schools!"
That was the comment from a friend of mine who was talking about the problem with schools and education today.
I tried to tell him that it was not really the teachers fault but the fault of unmotivated students, poverty, ignorance, teachers unions, a sick youth society, and government policies that says anyone who is interested in learning is a nerd, and a thousand other reasons. He would not buy it.
He went on to say: "If the teachers were any good they could get the students to listen to them and every student would excel. And if the teacher does not get results, fire them and bring in someone who can do the job."
Do you think my friend is right? Most of the fault is the teachers?
You're not going to get excellent teachers for 30 - 50k per year. That is an embarassing level of pay for someone with higher education. I have a PhD, and I'm a pretty good teacher. You'll never find me teaching high school, unless we go through a wormhole and the US suddenly has a culture that (a) values teachers and (b) pays them to show it. Sorry to be so mercenary, but if I can make 100-120k/year easily as a physicist I'm not going to be a martyr and teach, even though I do think it is important (which is why I support paying teachers and teacher's unions).
I don't understand why conservatives play stupid on this one. They love to defend CEO bonuses under the excuse that "talent" will leave if they are not rewarded, but refuse to believe that poor pay means less talented teachers. Especially now that women are more able to get into jobs that used to be denied them. I'm *not* saying all teachers are stupid, but simply that the best students every year at top schools are not becoming teachers, except in very small numbers. Fortunately there are still those that go into it because of a passion for teaching, but we do everything we can to wring it out of them. Most of my friends that became teachers after college have quit and moved on to other fields.
There are other issues with home life that are also important, and predominantly affect the lower classes. I can't teach a kid who has been taught to disrespect authority, or who's brain has been screwed up by repeated childhood traumas. That's really not the fault of the teacher and is a whole other issue. The solution is (short answer): reduce income inequality.
But I don't see either of these happening anytime soon. You also have to discuss the horrible effect that the "privatization" movement is having on our schools.
You're not going to get excellent teachers for 30 - 50k per year. That is an embarassing level of pay for someone with higher education. I have a PhD, and I'm a pretty good teacher. You'll never find me teaching high school, unless we go through a wormhole and the US suddenly has a culture that (a) values teachers and (b) pays them to show it. Sorry to be so mercenary, but if I can make 100-120k/year easily as a physicist I'm not going to be a martyr and teach, even though I do think it is important (which is why I support paying teachers and teacher's unions).
I don't understand why conservatives play stupid on this one. They love to defend CEO bonuses under the excuse that "talent" will leave if they are not rewarded, but refuse to believe that poor pay means less talented teachers. Especially now that women are more able to get into jobs that used to be denied them. I'm *not* saying all teachers are stupid, but simply that the best students every year at top schools are not becoming teachers, except in very small numbers. Fortunately there are still those that go into it because of a passion for teaching, but we do everything we can to wring it out of them. Most of my friends that became teachers after college have quit and moved on to other fields.
There are other issues with home life that are also important, and predominantly affect the lower classes. I can't teach a kid who has been taught to disrespect authority, or who's brain has been screwed up by repeated childhood traumas. That's really not the fault of the teacher and is a whole other issue. The solution is (short answer): reduce income inequality.
But I don't see either of these happening anytime soon. You also have to discuss the horrible effect that the "privatization" movement is having on our schools.
Very vsalid point. In college an old high school teacher suggested I look into teaching as he thought I would be quite good at it. I didn't have the heart to say that engineering pays twice as much. While teaching is a noble profession, I was all about the benjamins. Sadly this has continued, my teacher friends make 50k with those wanting more money RELUCTANTLY going into administrative roles (which most hate). Engineering has me into six figures.
My friends argument is a great teacher would be able to control the class and her public speaking ability would engage the class and the students would sit there engaged and interested in learning. As a result there would be no issues with acting out.
Right. Kids who have no sense of discipline or respect for authority will suddenly come under the magical spell of the all-powerful teacher. If your friend actually belives that, tell him I have some oceanfront property in Arizona for sale.
Right. Kids who have no sense of discipline or respect for authority will suddenly come under the magical spell of the all-powerful teacher. If your friend actually belives that, tell him I have some oceanfront property in Arizona for sale.
Some people just have a magic about them and can motivate, control, discipline, and inspire pretty much anyone. I remember an English teacher who could do all these things to pretty much everyone, including the kids from the bad side of town.
"If all or our teachers were excellent we would not be faced with failing schools!"
That was the comment from a friend of mine who was talking about the problem with schools and education today.
I tried to tell him that it was not really the teachers fault but the fault of unmotivated students, poverty, ignorance, teachers unions, a sick youth society, and government policies that says anyone who is interested in learning is a nerd, and a thousand other reasons. He would not buy it.
He went on to say: "If the teachers were any good they could get the students to listen to them and every student would excel. And if the teacher does not get results, fire them and bring in someone who can do the job."
Do you think my friend is right? Most of the fault is the teachers?
I think a big problem is administration.
School isn't about teaching. It's a big bureaucracy and about meeting test score quotas.
Some people just have a magic about them and can motivate, control, discipline, and inspire pretty much anyone. I remember an English teacher who could do all these things to pretty much everyone, including the kids from the bad side of town.
And those people aren't likely to enter a profession that pays $45K.
So, OP, what do you suggest doing to attract highly talented people, who will be excellent teachers, to enter the teaching profession here in the United States?
Teachers cannot be held responsible for lack of proper parental guidance. While they may be able to reach some in poor inner city environments, they cannot influence them all. Take a good teacher from a low income school, and place them in a school in a upper middle class area and most likely they become great teachers.
Clearly, our emphasis on pay for teachers is really substandard. When you compare them with law enforcement, and fire fighters pay they don't compare. The argument is they're not life safety, but I think this is short sighted. We should want the best teaching our kids. Ask a teacher what the most important part of belonging to a union is, and they'll tell you protection from false liability claims and due process being enforced.
I taught secondary education for 5 years. I got called in and asked about a coloring book drawing my 16 year daughter had done that I showed to the class. I used this to create a family environment to encourage participation. The picture was Curious George, and the Man with the Yellow hat. The students complaint was I was showing pictures of monkeys. I just explained to my supervisor how proud I was that my daughter still did this at 16. The point is how extreme conditions can get in the classroom.
Children cannot learn when they have been raised by animals to act like animals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Retired Now
"If all or our teachers were excellent we would not be faced with failing schools!"
That was the comment from a friend of mine who was talking about the problem with schools and education today.
I tried to tell him that it was not really the teachers fault but the fault of unmotivated students, poverty, ignorance, teachers unions, a sick youth society, and government policies that says anyone who is interested in learning is a nerd, and a thousand other reasons. He would not buy it.
He went on to say: "If the teachers were any good they could get the students to listen to them and every student would excel. And if the teacher does not get results, fire them and bring in someone who can do the job."
Do you think my friend is right? Most of the fault is the teachers?
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