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I don't know many other countries, in terms of their education practices.
I can tell you when I was over in Japan working with a school for regular and autistic students there, one of the things the teachers were doing was working together on their lesson plans - until 9pm, almost every night.
They were a blast to work with, but I can't see my fellow US teachers giving up their evenings at home.
----"but I can't see my fellow US teachers giving up their evenings at home "--
and why should they ?
If you favor keeping kids under the control of schools into the night( I don't) we should be hiring teachers for either day shift or night shift.
Amazing that posters decry the " little" time students spend ink-12 school yet make no comparrison to colleges where students spend much less time in school and most have a job besides going to school.
I think Obama is a bit nieve when he thinks (he) can decide how many days our students are required to attend public school during the school year. It was my thinking that it is each individual state that decides how they will handle that. My state is now considering "fewer" days required so they can balance the state budget in the coming fiscal year. Our state has a balanced budget requirement and they are looking at everything.
I think Obama is a bit nieve when he thinks (he) can decide how many days our students are required to attend public school during the school year. It was my thinking that it is each individual state that decides how they will handle that. My state is now considering "fewer" days required so they can balance the state budget in the coming fiscal year. Our state has a balanced budget requirement and they are looking at everything.
---"balanced budget requirement-"-
As does our state.
K-12 education already takes the biggest share out of our entire state budget.
However, funding k-12 education is in our state constitution.
Obama should point out where in the US Constitution k-12 funding is directly mentioned.
Go on-line. A world of free education ranging from simple arithmetic to MIT courses are online for free. FREE.
1/3 too 1/2 of the schools in the US are obsolete and should be closed.
1/2 to 2/3 of teachers should be let go and the remaining ones tested & evaluated to see whether their salaries have cause.
2/3 of administrators let go.
Hundreds of billions would be saved with a commensurate increase in quality of schooling and life.
Yet we stick to an antiquated model and our own childhood memories instead of enabling students to evolve to have memories of the present and future.
Finally, end the universality principal beyond elementary school, Milton Friedman's cut-off.
S.
One problem here. What percentage of families have a computer and access to the internet? Also, you can't believe everything you find on line. Some material is downright wrong. Take things like WIKIpedia. Anyone can edit any entry.
Also, on line learning takes motivation. Most of what I do as a teacher is motivate students to do their work because they want to do the bare minimum. For example, I lectured on new material today. Before the lecture, my students asked if I was collecting their lecture notes. When I said no, half of them folded their arms across their chests. I hope they have good memories.
Internet learning works if 1. you're motivated 2. the source you're learning from is reputable and 3. you don't cheat. All three of these are problem areas.
----"but I can't see my fellow US teachers giving up their evenings at home "--
and why should they ?
If you favor keeping kids under the control of schools into the night( I don't) we should be hiring teachers for either day shift or night shift.
Amazing that posters decry the " little" time students spend ink-12 school yet make no comparrison to colleges where students spend much less time in school and most have a job besides going to school.
By the time students reach college, they should be self motivated learners. They shouldn't need to sit in class and have a teacher guide them through everything. If that's what they need, they don't belong in college.
Most of what I do as a teacher is motivate students to do their work because they want to do the bare minimum.
Quote:
By the time students reach college, they should be self motivated learners. They shouldn't need to sit in class and have a teacher guide them through everything. If that's what they need, they don't belong in college
So maybe the question should be, "what are we (as a society, as parents, as teachers?) doing wrong that children are not motivated to learn?" Perhaps some self-motivation would be better for kids than more hours spent in school to be motivated. I'm not sure that lecturing kids who don't want to be lectured for more hours per day is going to make kids better or smarter or more comparable to students from Asia (or whatever the comparison we are looking at).
Also, while I personally don't have the need for school for my own children, I agree that some things need to be present before closing down all of these schools: motivation, as Ivory said; parental literacy, which seems to be lacking in some circles; and a parent home to supervise the children. Like it or not, school is necessary for kids who have no one at home to care for them during the day, as well as for those whose parents can't supply books and meals and all of the other things that school supply nowadays. Schools do not only function as schools... they also function as daycare centers and soup kitchens and places for kids to go where it's warm and safe.
Most of what I do as a teacher is motivate students to do their work because they want to do the bare minimum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
By the time students reach college, they should be self motivated learners. They shouldn't need to sit in class and have a teacher guide them through everything. If that's what they need, they don't belong in college.
How do you propose that the students become self-motivated learners if their teachers are busy teaching students to rely on the teacher to provide motivation?
To generalize this further, what are we doing wrong in schools, such that beings built to learn become demotivated from learning?
So maybe the question should be, "what are we (as a society, as parents, as teachers?) doing wrong that children are not motivated to learn?" Perhaps some self-motivation would be better for kids than more hours spent in school to be motivated. I'm not sure that lecturing kids who don't want to be lectured for more hours per day is going to make kids better or smarter or more comparable to students from Asia (or whatever the comparison we are looking at).
Also, while I personally don't have the need for school for my own children, I agree that some things need to be present before closing down all of these schools: motivation, as Ivory said; parental literacy, which seems to be lacking in some circles; and a parent home to supervise the children. Like it or not, school is necessary for kids who have no one at home to care for them during the day, as well as for those whose parents can't supply books and meals and all of the other things that school supply nowadays. Schools do not only function as schools... they also function as daycare centers and soup kitchens and places for kids to go where it's warm and safe.
If our kids were self motivated, teaching would be very different than it is today. I envision is as much more discovery based. They push investigative style learning but our kids don't seem to be able to do it. They're lost if someone doesn't tell them exactly what to do but they HATE others telling them what to do.
What are we doing wrong? Compared to countries where the children are motivated, we simply don't hold our children responsible. We expect the schools to adapt to the child and not the child to the school. Our kids grow up being told how special they are and then we're surprised when they think they should have everything handed to them. If we, instead, taught them from an early age what they owe society, it would be a different story.
In the U.S. we celebrate the individual. In other countries, they celebrate the group. Here society (and schools) serve the individual. There the individual serves the group. We are, vehementely, opposed to anything that we deem infringes on individuality. It should come as no surprise that our children resist learning. They want to do their own thing not what someone else tells them. They have no respect for authority. They fail to realize there is a base of knowledge they must attain before they're ready to think on their own. They think they know best. After all, they've gone their entire lives being told how special they are.
If you want to see this change, you need a system that allows for losers. When there is a price to pay for not learning, then and only then will learning have value. Our kids need to see learning as valuable to them if they are to be motivated. Other countries accomplish this by tying family pride to learning. In Asia, family pride is important to all members of the family. To shame the family such a dishonor that they have high suicide rates among teens. Here, everything is ok and failure is someone elses fault. Fail a grade, it's the school's fault. Get pregnant at 14 and there are all kinds of intervention programs to keep you in school, pay your bills and even provide free daycare for the baby while you finish your education (though most don't). We bail our kids out every step of the way and then sit and wonder why they have this idea that they are not responsible for themselves. Well, they're not. Why should they behave that way?
One thing that impressed me about Japenese engineers is how they treat their elders. They, figuratively, sit at their feet and learn. They understand that there is value in what those who have gone before them have learned. They value what they have to pass on to them. They accept that, for a time, they will occupy a lower place until they earn respect. Our kids believe they shoudln't even have to show respect to anyone who doesn't show it to them first. They think they were born deserving respect.
Schools will not change until students change. They can't. It will be the same war between teachers trying to force kids who don't want to to learn and the kids resisting being told what to do by someone they see as obsolete because they're older. In short, our kids need to be put in their place.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 10-05-2009 at 06:33 PM..
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