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Old 06-21-2011, 08:07 AM
 
2,714 posts, read 4,290,155 times
Reputation: 1314

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCobb View Post
By "radical", I mean a radical departure from the current course. I am aware that the style of government that Paul advocates for is much closer to the founders' original intent than what we currently have. However, what we currently have is actually very old as well. Almost from the beginning of the Republic, presidents, justices and lawmakers began interpreting the Constitution in such a way as to give them more power than is explicitly stated.

I know, for example, that many people who are apt to like Ron Paul hate the fact that the Supreme Court can overrule the Congress and find that a law passed by Congress is unconstitutional. Well, the Supreme Court has had this power since 1803, after Supreme Court Justice John Marshall ruled it so in Marbury vs. Madison. You can disagree with this ruling, but your disagreement is somewhat "radical" because you're trying to turn the clock back on 210 years of precedent.

The same can be said about a president ordering troops into combat. That clearly, clearly was never intended by the founders and for very good reason. It's much easier for an individual to decide to start a war than it is for a large body of elected representatives. I could be wrong, but I suspect the overwhelming majority of Americans -- right, left and center -- agree with the Constitution on this one, and think that we should only send troops into harm's way for longer than 60 days on the authority of a congressional declaration of war. But alas ... that's not the way we've done things since Truman's Korean adventure. That was 60 years ago. Sixty years is a long time in the history of our Republic ... greater than 25 percent of our existence. Turning back the clock on this would, at this point, be "radical" ... albeit a radical move that is in keeping with our original laws and traditions that would surely be popular with the people.

Paul would be a principled president, for sure, but he'd be a "weak" one because I don't think he would do much to advance a legislative agenda. He thinks (and correctly so) that the legislative course of the nation is supposed to be charted by the legislative branch. So, all he'd do is say .. no, can't do that ... that either... oops, that one's a no-no too ... to whatever Congress approved.

He'd do a number on U.S. Force structure, which is well within the scope of constitutionally granted executive powers,he'd scale way back on his job as chief law enforcer on certain laws, and he would probably do whatever he could to limit or completely destroy the Fed. After that, what could he do? He couldn't end income taxes because it's the job of the Congress to do that. He could recommend it, but that's about it.
Interesting post that raises a lot of questions and things to think about.

No president can do everything he wants to-- he is of course constrained by what congress will allow him to do... or is he? The abuse of executive orders is spinning out of control and now we have an executive branch that is unbalanced, a branch that can set us on the path of war without so much as consulting with the legislature. A branch that can order states not enforce their own illegal immigration laws (thinking Arizona here). A branch that can cause its executive bodies to punish states for not agreeing with it (EPA, Department of Energy, Department of Education...etc). Basically, a branch with FAR too much power.

My favorite thing about Paul is that he will drastically scale back the power of the executive branch by disbanding whole units of executive powers (like Department of Education, Energy, Homeland Security). He also won't get us tangled up in wars that we can't win. He will definitely save this country money, which will help to reduce our bloated debt of 14 trillion. Sound economic policies may return to America-- wouldn't that be nice?
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:10 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,765,154 times
Reputation: 18521
Progressives have a history of infiltration and marginalization. They did it to the Democrats, at the turn of the last century. They are entwined with the Republican party(McCain, Graham...) 2010 got a lot of them out, but not all and they have tried like hell to stand and say they are tea party supporters, when some of their ideology is very Progressive.


The masks come off, when the end justifies the means.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,296 posts, read 20,798,866 times
Reputation: 9330
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclone8570 View Post
Interesting post that raises a lot of questions and things to think about.

No president can do everything he wants to-- he is of course constrained by what congress will allow him to do... or is he? The abuse of executive orders is spinning out of control and now we have an executive branch that is unbalanced, a branch that can set us on the path of war without so much as consulting with the legislature. A branch that can order states not enforce their own illegal immigration laws (thinking Arizona here). A branch that can cause its executive bodies to punish states for not agreeing with it (EPA, Department of Energy, Department of Education...etc). Basically, a branch with FAR too much power.

My favorite thing about Paul is that he will drastically scale back the power of the executive branch by disbanding whole units of executive powers (like Department of Education, Energy, Homeland Security). He also won't get us tangled up in wars that we can't win. He will definitely save this country money, which will help to reduce our bloated debt of 14 trillion. Sound economic policies may return to America-- wouldn't that be nice?

Good post.

The power shift from local and states to the federal level began under Lincoln and has been growing steadily. We now have a federal government that is totally out of control - especially the executive branch.

It will be impossible to restore the balance of powers that our founding fathers envisioned.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:14 AM
 
Location: NC
4,100 posts, read 4,528,192 times
Reputation: 1372
you don't have to be a teabagger to support Ron Paul.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Va. Beach
6,391 posts, read 5,179,131 times
Reputation: 2283
Why not? Obama got all the change he wanted....

Now all that we have left is a bit of change, all the dollars have been used up.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:16 AM
 
12,867 posts, read 14,945,576 times
Reputation: 4459
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclone8570 View Post
Interesting post that raises a lot of questions and things to think about.

No president can do everything he wants to-- he is of course constrained by what congress will allow him to do... or is he? The abuse of executive orders is spinning out of control and now we have an executive branch that is unbalanced, a branch that can set us on the path of war without so much as consulting with the legislature. A branch that can order states not enforce their own illegal immigration laws (thinking Arizona here). A branch that can cause its executive bodies to punish states for not agreeing with it (EPA, Department of Energy, Department of Education...etc). Basically, a branch with FAR too much power.

My favorite thing about Paul is that he will drastically scale back the power of the executive branch by disbanding whole units of executive powers (like Department of Education, Energy, Homeland Security). He also won't get us tangled up in wars that we can't win. He will definitely save this country money, which will help to reduce our bloated debt of 14 trillion. Sound economic policies may return to America-- wouldn't that be nice?
obviously, working people have a hard time getting as involved because they need to be out working and supporting their families.

if the people who now depend on the government don't wake up, they are going to have a rather rude awakening. they need to only look at greece and iceland to see the damage that massive debt does. the united states gravy train is going to end simply because we can't continue to spend all this money on wars, social services, and pensions. if we could have printed our way out of debt, we would have! but as anyone can see, NOTHING HAS BEEN FIXED.

if you are dependent on either social services or pensions, you better get off your rear and start objecting to the wars before it is too late. you need to at least contact your representatives and demand to know what they are doing to end the wars/save money.

i can tell you with 100% certainty if the government had to chose between war profiteering and social services, war profiteering would win and social services/pensions would take the cut.

in the end, there probably will be major cuts unless the private sector gets back up and running (not likely in this administration) so you want to try to limit the damage that you might feel personally.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:18 AM
 
9,879 posts, read 8,037,842 times
Reputation: 2521
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclone8570 View Post
It doesn't matter HOW you classify Ron Paul...

Just vote for him. Time to get rid of the RINO's.
That's a very nice way of putting it

I was going to clarify for all, that Paul is a Constitutionalist, as in Libertarian Constitutionalist,
not like the Constitution Party whose goal is to restore American jurisprudence to its Biblical foundations,

but

I like your point better - JUST VOTE FOR HIM
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:20 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,765,154 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin View Post
I hope your joking, because Lieberman is NOT a
middle of the road Libertarian - not even close to
a Libertarian

He's a Demopublican. Definitely a foreign policy interventionist.

And, thankfully, he's retiring in 2012.


Middle of the road that leans to the left. No I'm not joking.

Go look at Joe's voting record and go look at Ron's voting record. The facts are presented to you on a platter. Will you take a bite?

Joe voted with the Progressive Democrats 85% of the time.
Paul has been right down the Constitutional line. Article 1, section 8
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Houston, Tx
541 posts, read 1,904,969 times
Reputation: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Far from being like, or having the same ideology as Joe Liberman, a middle of the road Libertarian. Who votes 85% of the time to push Progressive policy.

Ron Paul is a Constitutionalist.

The tea party is the original grass roots organization of Ron Paul supporters.
I'm thinking you don't know what "Libertarian" means.....
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:23 AM
 
Location: NC
4,100 posts, read 4,528,192 times
Reputation: 1372
Liebermann is nowhere near Libertarian. He's a neo-con warmonger.
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