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Old 12-20-2016, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Planet Telex
5,900 posts, read 3,905,693 times
Reputation: 5857

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Obama had eight years, and things just kept getting worse. Joblessness is at an all time high too, with only 50% of the workforce (the "labor participation rate) employed. Bush had noting to do with this. This is Obozo's legacy.
And a Republican congress, too.

 
Old 12-20-2016, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Hiding from Antifa!
7,783 posts, read 6,092,189 times
Reputation: 7099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance and Change View Post
You really forgot a crucial component in your claims, and that is "8 yrs of Republican Opposition and a standing pledge to fight against anything and everything within and about the Obama Administration, which they knew would and did, cause "Congressional Gridlock", even then they want to pretend they were not the catalysis of such, when it was their direct aim from the moment Obama won the Presidency. Selective Amnesia is not the best thing to lean upon or utilize, when trying to discuss something so crucial to the big picture.
At least he offered facts to refute your opinions.
 
Old 12-20-2016, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Keosauqua, Iowa
9,614 posts, read 21,284,995 times
Reputation: 13675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro View Post
"Mr. Bush did foresee the danger posed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored mortgage finance giants. The president spent years pushing a recalcitrant Congress to toughen regulation of the companies, but was unwilling to compromise when his former Treasury secretary wanted to cut a deal. And the regulator Mr. Bush chose to oversee them — an old prep school buddy — pronounced the companies sound even as they headed toward insolvency."

Bush
Not buying. No source is listed, and the article states as fact another fallacy about the Bush platform, that he wanted to privatize Social Security. This calls the accuracy of the entire article into question.
 
Old 12-20-2016, 03:27 PM
 
27,163 posts, read 15,338,717 times
Reputation: 12082
Quote:
Originally Posted by don1945 View Post
Let me see if I can help clear up some of your confusion. Bill was right, it is very apparent that Trump got a lot of his support from white Americans who were ticked off for various reasons. Their perception of how our country was going was one factor, but we can not ignore the hidden feelings that a lot of people had about Obama, and that hidden part was that he is black.

Trump tapped into the things that some people were ashamed or afraid to say publicly. I'm a white guy, but I realize that there is bigotry in this country. Some of us whites DO NOT like Obama simply for the reason that he is not white. Anyone who denies that is lying.

As for your other question, no, not everyone who voted for Obama was black. I am white and voted for him twice. We did it because America was in the toilet from Bush. People were losing homes and jobs left and right, and there was a lot to fix at that time. THAT is why we voted for Obama, and I would have voted for him a 3rd time, if I could.

We whites hate to admit that we do hold deep prejudices and biases. Trump never came out and said "white things" directly, but he made white people feel that people we do not like were going to be kicked out of the country (Mexicans and Muslims) and others were going to see more law enforcement coming down on them (blacks through his stop and frisk ideas). All Trump did was loudly and frequently say the things lots of whites were feeling but afraid to openly admit.

Hope that clears up your confusion.




What a load!


A lousy President is the factor here.
 
Old 12-20-2016, 05:45 PM
 
5,472 posts, read 3,228,960 times
Reputation: 3935
Quote:
Originally Posted by WannaliveinGreenville View Post
You see Donald Trump, your new President, in a different light, a different way..... than most others do. Donald Trump was NOT elected because he is wealthy and powerful. America does not care how much money he has or how much power he has. (Yes it's nice and I am happy for him and yes it's obvious he is wealthy). Donald Trump is NOT boring, nor full of himself. He is...wait for it...wait for it..CONFIDENT!!... I wonder how many out there envy that about him and could not pick him to be the president because he came across to some as overly-confident? (A good example of fake over confidence would be Lyin' Hillary on election night)


Voters cared about someone taking America, cradling this country in their strong hands because they want positive change and they knew Donald Trump could make those changes!


Not deceit,->>>>>Hillary<<<<<< frivolous spending, blowing off the deaths of 4 men in Benghazi, treating most people around her like dirt, playing dirty over and over and over with her hidden interests and agendas. You don't think AMERICA saw that she was not FIT to be our president??? Did you think voters forgot about how callous she was about the deaths of those 4 men? (now... maybe someday, in 2024, when Donald serves out his 8 years, will there be room again for another FIT woman to try and run. Hillary Rotten Clinton was not IT!


You need to understand Donald Trump a little better.... Do not mistake him for an idiot or someone you can lead around by the neck with a chain (like Hillary leads Bill around with). He is not a bully. I don't see him as one and neither do 60 Million voters. I've seen bully's at school. Donald is NO bully. He is direct and to the point, a bit rough on the edges for some but I see clarity, honesty and the dream to succeed to make this country great again!
I cannot tell you that your view is not valid in the expression you submit. I don't disagree that Trump is Confident. which is a good thing in any person.

There were things of Trump I agree with, but for certain I don't agree with any aspect of his tone and temperament of conduct in some of the things he said and the ways he said it, as well some of the things he did and the ways he did it. (I have many posted writing discussing such elements and why)
I think many people were equally not at the least bit pleased with much of such, Including his republican counterparts of candidacy and office.

As to the Economy, I have long written in this web portal and many other locations, the necessity for the U.S. to have a strong Industrial complex. I've asserted that known fact, that "Industry Builds Nations" and been critical of this nations methods, motives and acts of outsourcing as if it forgot that fact. I've asserted the lack of industry diminishes nations, as I have been a challenger against outsourcing even during the midst of the 90's when the buzz word of the nations was "outsource". Actually, I was opposed to outsourcing, when by the 1970's all our appliance productions were being moved over-seas, and before that even as a kid, with all the poorly made Japanese goods flooded our nation, during the 1960's through the 1980's.

I posed many challenges to the nature of such far longer than many of the Johnny & Jane come lately, only now see as an issue. I've also been an opposer of the massive mess of mergers and acquisition, and the dismantling nature it created and how it imploded competition, increased debt load on industry and brought challenge in the game of quarterly reporting, resulted in diminished service and ultimately non durable product quality, thus specifically lowering product quality standards into the mess of disposable goods.

I saw the mill towns collapse long since during childhood, when people lost jobs and saw mills closed, steel mills and brick yards and factories. I remember in the 1970's when Firestone and BF Goodrich packed up and left. yet, we were a nation driven in success by the automobile and everything that goes into it. Yet, we outsourced these core things. By the 1980's we were making crap cars and Importing everything Foreign. Today, what do we have except every kind of name of tires one can think, all by foreign makers.

We brought Japan companies here in a Union busting effort and resulted to diminish the American Automobile for 30 yrs. Only under President Obama, did our Auto Industry come back to life. Yet, by then, we were already convoluted, by plants being set up in foreign locations, including Canada and Mexico.

American People and their kids playing professor script university madness status and title games, is what destroyed all of America's Industry, not some Alien from Space. for more info go read about Texas Instruments and other companies and the cycle where Japan took over the use of computer chips that set us back to the point today, we don't even make the computers we use in America.
Bell Telephone kept making analog phone and Japan flooded us with digital phone, made in any model and style one could think to want, and we sat on our butts until Bell and Lucient Technologies folded over and simply decimated communities.

This cycle was repeated with any and every commodity of appliance and etc. We followed up with moving even support centers to India. That's the result of what the overt obsessive ignorance of the Degree Title Madness gave us, is a devastated nation. Now we are so pathetic in such ways, we want people to have a degree to fill an ice cream cone. Then we wonder why we accepted the scam, that American's can't compete.
We lost respect for the worker and hailed the degree rider as the only value in America, and we've been falling every since.
We became so simplistic, we even went to Canada to make America Movies, only until the last 10 yrs did we get smart enough to bring some of it back. Then, Dumb Republican Bobby Jindal, damaged that in the state of Louisiana, just as it was stabilizing in high production of feature films. All so he could pander and give money to his cronies systems and insurance companies. Then he left that State in debt.

I was certainly a supporter of Trumps acts in how he dismantled the Republican party and silenced them !!! I think it was just and due to the Republican Congress because of their abuse of power, and ignorance to make a pledge that was subversive unto their sworn duty as elected officials, which resulted in generalized damage to this nation and its people.

I do not like his excessive abuse of the tax codes, but I agree with his statement that bipartisan acts should have fixed these elements in the tax codes. I don't think he should have bragged nor boasted about not paying taxes. Especially when he was a number one pursuer of tax credits and then tax write off, which ultimately become a burden to the general public. Thus so, such things give an aggrieved status to the american people, maybe not a injurious individual overt impact, but a system deficiency impact by the acts of such. I have no affinity for his desire to dismantle Governmental Departments, nor his disregard to the nature and work it took to establish those departments.
His posture regarding NATO is not a good one, because global unity is a work that is always in process, if anything he should speak of how and what he can do to help strengthen NATO, not just saying everyone pay up, but how they can better engage to perform on the global stage as well to address its objectives and how they can become better at stepping in at the advent of situations, not at the point disaster has raged beyond control.

Again, on Economics, Yes, I am for Re-Industrializing America, I am also for taking care of our kids, youth and senior citizens and those whom have challenges of disabilities. These latter things he does not discuss.
He has not discussed College expense and what he can do to lower it and make college more accessible and affordable. In these regards, I think he should think in terms of developing A Civic Corp, (as outlined) This was posted 04-06-2014, well before Trump came on the Presidential Candidacy Scene.

I think it is wise of Trump to have a reversal in his attitude about President Obama, but I don't care for the birther crap he spent so much time and money promoting, I don't care for the lack of regard to acknowledge the improvements made after the Bush mess devastated the nation.

I've written here, if he stays focused on the Economy and LEARN when to speak and when not to speak, and get off the Twitter when he has no concern of awareness for the interpretative differences and impact in what he says and how it plays on a International Stage.

I don't agree with you regarding Benghazi, that was a republican senate that had the power to fund better security, they were the only ones who had that power under the sequester, and at the advent of that situation, facts matters. As well as Ambassador Steven, with his pie in the sky ideals, did not take serious the nature, conditions and variables within the events in Libya, and the fact that he went there without protection with some security with hand guns, in a unsecured compound, his choices led to a mess that left himself and others dead. No one knew what the trigger moment was for those people, they were having an internal conflict, and the factions of radical convergence was beyond anyone's grasp of what and when they'd act or what would tip them at any point. I think Republican did more dis-service to those whom died than they did anything else. It was a partisan play, and when facts turned around and the ball fell in their court as to funding, then the issue faded from the congressional hearing and out of the news. I don't buy any pay to play game by Hillary either.

As I for one, if I was going to donate million to any charitable org. I'd certainly need to know what the State Dept is doing and what is their agenda, whether I am an American or a Foreigner, when that charitable org deals with International interactions. That is within the scope of the State Departments functions as it relates to a U.S. Based Charitable Org, that does International work. But at no time did Trump or any Republican discuss that ethical factor, they tried to twist it as pay for access. When it is a necessity of financial responsibility and International diplomacy to gain and be informed. This is part of a system that also deals with all investments in large charities that do International work, and falls within the purview of making sure money does not support subversive activities. But, they knew the general public would not look at the intricacies of such, so it made for a good drama spin.

I am not interested in "boring or not", that is about drama, it to me is not relevant.
As to Republican in general, they took an adversarial posture the moment President Obama was elected, the Tea Party took off like a rocket, and at no time would Republican acknowledge the extent and degree of devastation that resulted from the Bush Presidency. Nor did they want to acknowledge what it cost to fix it.
When Obama said, "CHANGE"; all Republican cried about "my tax dollars", and crying and screaming that someone was taking money from them, when what President Obama said, the exact same thing Trump is now saying, For Business People to Bring their Money Back and RE-INVEST IN AMERICA. But republican took the most negative posture about it, yet, now not only are they not whining about "my tax dollars" they praise Trump for not paying Taxes, and they are all in for Trump increasing debt immediately by a Trillion Dollars, for Infrastructure, but they whined like babies, when Obama directed Stimulus funds to Infrastructure, and Republican State did all they could to expend the money as much as possible and do as little as possible. Now, Suddenly, Republican are all in support of RE-Invest In America and they are not whining about it as being taking from the rich to give to the poor or calling it wealth re-distribution. It's pure insidious how bias, damaged this country, and now Republican are all for the same exact programs that Obama promoted to Re-invest in America. Sadly, race caused people ears to close, and now race because Trump is a white male, peoples ears are suddenly open and their minds are willing and want to cooperate. That is insidious within the American sphere of society. It infuriates people when republican deny such racial motivations they engaged and try and pretend it was everything other than racial.

Obama continually talked about Main Street Citizens, in trying to reign in banks, and republican blocked the extent of controls that were necessary, then Trump comes and make the same complain about banks, and people think he's a genius with new ideas. Obama pushed to reign in Wall Street, again republican cried and whined, knowing all along Wall Street fed the crash of 2007-2008, but Trump complains about Wall Street and Republican again, think he has come up with something new. yet, they want to say, they are not bias, and they are not racist and their acts were not race driven. Not only was there racism, there was the fact they did not like anything about the idea of Democrat's getting credit for fixing the messes they made under their last Administration. All of a sudden NOW, Republican want to say, the role within being President is a Job creator, but during Obama Term, all Republican had to say, is that the role of the President is Not a Job Creator. (such stuff wreaks of bias and racist bigotry)
Then when he made effort to help create Jobs, Republican attacked that, fighting the jobs bill, When he saved the Automotive Industry Republican cried about that, but yet, they Praise Trump for a massive tax give away to Carrier. which is not even a fraction of the scope and expanse of the Auto Industry and its supply chain!!! The bias mentality of the Republican is what is intolerable. The lie that they are not of such bias which is racially driven, is an atrocity. The point is, quit lying, and demonstrate they are not racist driven and biased racially.

White people use public assistance at a rate of more than 4:1 and some areas 7:1 over minorities, but white people don't want to accept that fact. because racism what them to play the slander game of ignorance in such matters and socially.

I don't like the idea that Republican are accepting without question the mess with Trumps Wife not being and filling the role as Traditional First Lady's, and then wanting protection for a high rise building so she can bask in her golden tower. Yet, not one word about expense or cost is uttered by republicans, but the minute President Obama or Michelle took a vacation or a foreign diplomacy trip, republican were all over the internet tabulating cost and whining and complaining about tax dollars.
No president has ever had their kids wrapped up in the political system and meddling, yet, republican said not one word with Trumps daughter, sitting in with a meeting of Head of State or his sons meddling in affairs of the nation.
No President Elect has ever been all over the place meddling in International Affairs while the current sitting President is still in office. Yet, Republican endorse that disrespectful conduct by Trump.

Trump can complain about A TV comedy show, but he pretends he does not know anything about the racial acts engaged by racist groups since his election.

I'm not for this country bring in massive volumes of people from places where terrorism is high and the frequency is beyond belief. I think those nations need to figure out their issues, and one issue is they have to come to terms with the fact, it is never going to be peace, as long as religious ideology controls the laws of those lands. They have to separate religion from State or they will never find a peaceful medium to live without terror raging like a wild fire.

I don't like the fact that an imbecile like Carson who knows nothing about HUD is put over HUD, or someone like Perry is put over divisions he wants to dismantle. Tillerson is a problem because Big Oil is a world problem, and he has been a catalysis within the conflicts that have raged around the globe as it relates to Oil. For decades, Oil has fueled more conflicts than any other factor in global interactions and factions of warring factions, and he was and is a direct party to it.

Now, the fact at this moment is, Trump is the President, so, as American, we all have to hope it turns out well and that he does well, because it matters to the whole world that he does well. I think he needs to fix his personal issue of his assets and those of his cabinet. We don't need to be dragged in war, because his hotel or golf course in some part of the world got attacked or some asset of his cabinet members asset got destroyed.
He need to get his children out of it, or they divest themselves and if legal, they hold some public supported role, if not, they need to be out of it. His wife needs to figure out what this situations is and adopt a role and fulfill it. America owes nothing to her playing baby sitter in a sky high palace. We have no King, who has a Queen tucked away in a Castle, we are not a Monarchy. We do not have a dictatorship where he gets to make up the rules.
I do not see him as what he said, "he alone can fix all our problems", Never will I accept in man proclaiming such a capacity. We are a Democracy, with a Congress, that functions as a Republic. That being the United States of American, a nation of laws, governance, regulatory management and policy, structure and programs, and that is not to be usurped by Trump or any other individual.

The job is Presiding Officer as President, NOT Ruler and Dictator or Monarch.
We have to support him as being President, and not more than that. There is "NO" Blind Trust to be given to Trump, and the sooner Republicans stop trying to do so, the more likely people can find means to pursue and find a median of ability to find areas of mutual support. (There are many other writings posted which discuss the details of what has been written by me)

At this point our best situations as American People, is to find the means to work for progress together... that benefits ALL of Us !!!!

Last edited by Chance and Change; 12-20-2016 at 07:13 PM..
 
Old 12-20-2016, 06:56 PM
 
57 posts, read 23,418 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by don1945 View Post
Let me see if I can help clear up some of your confusion. Bill was right, it is very apparent that Trump got a lot of his support from white Americans who were ticked off for various reasons. Their perception of how our country was going was one factor, but we can not ignore the hidden feelings that a lot of people had about Obama, and that hidden part was that he is black.

Trump tapped into the things that some people were ashamed or afraid to say publicly. I'm a white guy, but I realize that there is bigotry in this country. Some of us whites DO NOT like Obama simply for the reason that he is not white. Anyone who denies that is lying.

As for your other question, no, not everyone who voted for Obama was black. I am white and voted for him twice. We did it because America was in the toilet from Bush. People were losing homes and jobs left and right, and there was a lot to fix at that time. THAT is why we voted for Obama, and I would have voted for him a 3rd time, if I could.

We whites hate to admit that we do hold deep prejudices and biases. Trump never came out and said "white things" directly, but he made white people feel that people we do not like were going to be kicked out of the country (Mexicans and Muslims) and others were going to see more law enforcement coming down on them (blacks through his stop and frisk ideas). All Trump did was loudly and frequently say the things lots of whites were feeling but afraid to openly admit.

Hope that clears up your confusion.
You realize that the seeds for recessions are sown before one president don't you? Your post is way too black and white with no grey. Tons of labels and attempts to rationalize your own biases

At least you admit you are prejudiced though
 
Old 12-20-2016, 06:58 PM
 
57 posts, read 23,418 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
Indeed, you do appear to be.



Quite the opposite.


The poster is QUITE incensed at the fact that Bill Clinton was politically incorrect.


Righties ONLY like "PC" when it being used against groups they hate . Their own precious egos are quite delicate.


President Elect Twit case in point.
You should really see a proctologist. That level of butthurt can't be healthy
 
Old 12-20-2016, 07:34 PM
 
5,472 posts, read 3,228,960 times
Reputation: 3935
don1945, you speak the truths, therefore be not swayed by these whom challenge, they won't learn by their own choice, they choose to be shallow in grasp of what you've written and they by choice have decided not to learn anything through the words you've written. As usual, their impulse and act is to deny, deflect, denigrate. defended when there is nothing of need to defend against, as they continue in the pursuit to antagonize with contentions, is the standard format, which is seen all over this site, especially when such matters are discussed. They demonstrate how and why racism perpetuates itself through the ages.

It's about like the Pre-Civil Rights Segregationist Era, when white people who chose to be fair and function with equality with blacks, those who supported segregation would attack the whites who saw equality as being right and fair in life. For decades, many white people were afraid to speak such truths, because those who solicit people to endorse their racism would attack the equality and diversity respecting white people with a viciousness that was beyond belief. Sadly, many of such types still exist. They can't digest equality, because something within their own self weakness pushes them to want to be superior, when in fact, it exposes their own sense of fearing being inferior. The concept of equality freighters the heck out of them. Equality is about strength, pursuit of superiority is singularity, therefore of a weakness, because equality means unity, and unity is stronger than singularity.

Remember, "The March to Selma", how the whites guys attacked the 2 white priest and also killed the white lady too, who was supporting the march and supported of Civil Rights, Equality and Voting Rights.. Some of these people who attack your posting, are a prime example that such types still exist. They want everyone else to be as racial bias as they are, if not, they attack by any and many means. The good thing today, is many white people no longer fear the race biased whites who want to enlist them into their racial bigotry.

It is good that you are smart enough and did not try and rebut any of their commentary, because they'd love nothing more than to bait you into their madness. They will likely keep re-posting your comment trying to suck you into their program.

No one ever said there were not anguished race bias blacks, because we know that exist as well. but there are certainly more equality pursuing blacks, than there are race bias blacks.

Last edited by Chance and Change; 12-20-2016 at 08:03 PM..
 
Old 12-20-2016, 07:47 PM
 
15,590 posts, read 15,693,874 times
Reputation: 22004
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruisetheworld View Post
My My! Bill Clinton votes in Albany for Hillary yesterday and claims that one reason Hillary lost was because "angry white men voted for Trump."

How divisive and racist a statement! Just like when Van Jones claimed the vote for Trump was a
"whitelash."

So I guess it is appropriate to say that in 2008 angry blacks voted for Obama? Or is that bigoted and divisive?
It's neither divisive nor racist. Based on what I've read, it's factual.
 
Old 12-21-2016, 07:04 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,419 posts, read 20,325,486 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandsthetime View Post
And a Republican congress, too.
A Republican Congress can do nothing with a Democrat president like Obama, who veto's everything they pass that he doesn't agree with. Also, Harry Reid, who controlled the Senate for most of recent years, leaving hundreds of Republican bills on his desk that were never acted upon.

Sorry, but you cannot use that excuse. Doesn't hold up.
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