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Status:
"Moldy Tater Gangrene, even before Moscow Marge."
(set 29 days ago)
Location: Dallas, TX
5,790 posts, read 3,615,549 times
Reputation: 5697
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightleavenyc
Everytime someone comes out against voting rights, they get jumped on. Answer these two questions:
1. Why if the prefrontal cortex (reasoning, rationality) is not fully developed until age 25 should anyone under that age be allowed to make big decisions like voting?
If this is true, the same goes for ALL other "adult-activities" - including drivers license, pot or alcohol consumption, sex (even consensual), and …. wait for it.... serving in the military.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightleavenyc
2. Why should someone who pays no taxes have any say whatsoever in voting and consequently how other people's money will be spent?
Every time you buy something, you pay taxes. The same goes for payroll taxes for everyone who has a job, even a sub-living wage one. BTW, there's a reason the US moved away from property-ownership (i.e. biggest contributors) as a qualification for voting.
I wish we had a nation with 100 million just like her.
Ann Coulter is the best. She's one of the few who knows that quality always beats quantity.
I notice you live in Wyoming, a state known for letting women vote and where women had roles in the government long before other states let women do such a thing. I wonder how many in Wyoming would feel by you supporting someone who believes women shouldn't vote.
Status:
"Moldy Tater Gangrene, even before Moscow Marge."
(set 29 days ago)
Location: Dallas, TX
5,790 posts, read 3,615,549 times
Reputation: 5697
Oh, one more thing.
Saying you have to pay taxes to vote in an election implies that citizenship in general is a club, not an intrinsic right - even if both your parents are full citizens of the land. If that's the case, then that slices the connection between citizenship and voting rights. Furthermore if citizenship is not an automatic right to vote, then the business-owning / high salaried class can support both sub-living wages and zero taxes on those with sub-living wages in order to deprive the poor citizens of their right to vote. In this case, the business-owing class / high-salaried class won't have as many barriers to gathering even more wealth. Result: a neo-feudalism, a few people at the top with a lot of money, a tiny bit more (or even less) people in the middle class, and a whole bunch of poor people. Sounds more like Mexico or Brazil than it does the USA of the 20th Century. Sure doesn't sound like a way to ensure long-term social and political stability to me.
Saying you have to pay taxes to vote in an election implies that citizenship in general is a club, not an intrinsic right - even if both your parents are full citizens of the land. If that's the case, then that slices the connection between citizenship and voting rights. Furthermore if citizenship is not an automatic right to vote, then the business-owning / high salaried class can support both sub-living wages and zero taxes on those with sub-living wages in order to deprive the poor citizens of their right to vote. In this case, the business-owing class / high-salaried class won't have as many barriers to gathering even more wealth. Result: a neo-feudalism, a few people at the top with a lot of money, a tiny bit more (or even less) people in the middle class, and a whole bunch of poor people. Sounds more like Mexico or Brazil than it does the USA of the 20th Century. Sure doesn't sound like a way to ensure long-term social and political stability to me.
While we are going down this road, let's pretend, just for a moment, that tying voting rights to taxes or property ownership is a good idea, and follow that idea to its logical conclusion.
If one must pay taxes or own property to vote, would that not suggest that people who pay more taxes or own more property are entitled to more votes? After all, that nice little house in the suburbs may look like a shack to someone with multiple homes worth millions, and what is a ten, twenty, or fifty thousand dollar tax liability in the eyes of someone who pays 100 times as much? More tax liability does mean more of a say, right?
Moral? Be careful what you wish for, lest you one day receive it.
And America will lose, too. 80% of French over 18 vote; they have ruined their country and are now rioting in protest of what they voted for.
People in America rioted when fewer people voted. Problem is not that people vote. The problem is the persons running for office.
When people CAN'T vote, or they have their voting rights restricted to the point of futility, they don't have a say and they are vulnerable to human rights abuses. Jim Crow is a perfect example of this.
Status:
"Moldy Tater Gangrene, even before Moscow Marge."
(set 29 days ago)
Location: Dallas, TX
5,790 posts, read 3,615,549 times
Reputation: 5697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64
While we are going down this road, let's pretend, just for a moment, that tying voting rights to taxes or property ownership is a good idea, and follow that idea to its logical conclusion.
If one must pay taxes or own property to vote, would that not suggest that people who pay more taxes or own more property are entitled to more votes? After all, that nice little house in the suburbs may look like a shack to someone with multiple homes worth millions, and what is a ten, twenty, or fifty thousand dollar tax liability in the eyes of someone who pays 100 times as much? More tax liability does mean more of a say, right?
Moral? Be careful what you wish for, lest you one day receive it.
It could very well segue over into that point. although I can imagine that some people would concede that owner of Jimmy's Fish Shack down on Levee Street, barely profitable, should get the same number of votes as a CEO driving an Aston Martin, living in one of the said type of house you mentioned.
At the very least, it could turn into a "You don't get government investments in infrastructure, education, health care, etc. unless you pay taxes". The only reason they'd provide police and military protection is due to geographic proximity: criminals and invading armies controlling the poor areas can easily spread over into the tax-payers' areas. That's what an "only taxpayers have the right of say-so over government spending" leads to. Sounds like a launch pad into Hunger Games territory.
This supports green_mariner's post directly above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
When people CAN'T vote, or they have their voting rights restricted to the point of futility, they don't have a say and they are vulnerable to human rights abuses. Jim Crow is a perfect example of this.
It could very well segue over into that point. although I can imagine that some people would concede that owner of Jimmy's Fish Shack down on Levee Street, barely profitable, should get the same number of votes as a CEO driving an Aston Martin, living in one of the said type of house you mentioned.
At the very least, it could turn into a "You don't get government investments in infrastructure, education, health care, etc. unless you pay taxes". The only reason they'd provide police and military protection is due to geographic proximity: criminals and invading armies controlling the poor areas can easily spread over into the tax-payers' areas. That's what an "only taxpayers have the right of say-so over government spending" leads to. Sounds like a launch pad into Hunger Games territory.
This supports green_mariner's post directly above.
Thank you Phil.
At the least, the scenario you describe seems a bit more like Somalia. Invading armies and criminals rulling the poor areas. Somalia has basically been controlled by warlords. Of course, we have some people who would prefer that those who don't make much money would just "go away". Hunger Games? At the least. I would compare it to Somalia.
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