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I don't presume to have suffered anything even remotely close to what people like the Jews have suffered....but the persecution of the Jews started in little increments.....
Obama may be religious but he should keep that OUT of the government, OUT of his legislation, OUT of his (my... I'm helping to pay for it) inauguration.
Christians are responsible for many horrors which is why I am upset with Obama.
So the pogroms and other horrors visited upon their citizens by atheistic communist governments don't bother you? I'm sure the victims in Russia, China, Cambodia, North Korea, etc. etc. would disagree.
And the massive amount of deaths all over the world caused by muslims is fine with you?
And the tribal wars that are wiping out thousands and thousands of people in some African countries doesn't even upset you?
I could go on and on throughout history. But the point is that while Christians are not innocent, they are sure far from the most guilty and yet they are the only ones you hate. Why is that?
I think a lot of people, including much of the media, are missing the point here. The fact that Warren supported prop 8 or is opposed to gay marriage is not the problem per say. Even Obama is opposed to gay marriage, as are most Christians. Changing public opinion on this issue will take time and will occur gradually, not overnight. The problem with Warren is that he has made inflammatory and bigoted statements about gay relationships, likening them to incest and pedophilia. Such comparisons are inappropriate and only serve to promote bigotry, ignorance, and intolerance. Many of Obama's supporters, including this one, viewed his victory as a defeat of bigotry and intolerance and to see him invite someone like Warren to give the invocation at such an historic event that many have eagerly anticipated and hoped would be a unifying and uplifting experience in which everyone would feel included is bewildering and extremely disappointing.
It's perfectly fine for Obama to reach across the isle to the right and to conservative evangelicals to find common ground and to work together on policy issues, but he should not isolate and allow his base to be marginalized and humiliated in the process by propping up and giving a platform to those who use divisive and hateful speech against us.
I'm happy Obama picked Warren for the inauguration prayer. We do need to come together (all of us).
One thing that stands out to me in all of this uproar is that Obama is against gay marriage also, so is Biden. So Obama and Warren do have things in common. Why doesn't the gay community talk about that? I never hear them talk about Obama being against gay marriage. Strange.
It politically castrates their agenda to use the plight of the homosexuals wanting marriage to the plight of African Americans wanting freedom.
Warren: Anyone that writes a book and makes millions off of it about making your life about service and "not about yourself" and turns around and donates 90% of that money to charities deserves a hat tip at the very least.
Last edited by BigJon3475; 12-19-2008 at 09:21 AM..
Actually yes I do. Bibles, Korans and other books of religion have no place in a government function. The government should be required to operate religion free in every function. Don't get me wrong- I am not an Atheist nor am I anti religion. I just think that religion belongs in a person's church, home and heart. It has no place in schools, government, workplaces or airports.
However, and in reality, Religion IS PART of government - in so many various ways including providing funds to FBO's (Faith Based Organizations) to help people (a practice that increased under President Clinton).
"And may God Bless America" is part of many speeches, and will remain so.
IMO, the person being sworn in should have the choice of what they would like to have at THEIR ceremony - up to, and including, the use of a Bible.
So the pogroms and other horrors visited upon their citizens by atheistic communist governments don't bother you? I'm sure the victims in Russia, China, Cambodia, North Korea, etc. etc. would disagree.
And the massive amount of deaths all over the world caused by muslims is fine with you?
And the tribal wars that are wiping out thousands and thousands of people in some African countries doesn't even upset you?
I could go on and on throughout history. But the point is that while Christians are not innocent, they are sure far from the most guilty and yet they are the only ones you hate. Why is that?
"""So the pogroms and other horrors visited upon their citizens by atheistic communist governments don't bother you? I'm sure the victims in Russia, China, Cambodia, North Korea, etc. etc. would disagree.
And the massive amount of deaths all over the world caused by muslims is fine with you?
And the tribal wars that are wiping out thousands and thousands of people in some African countries doesn't even upset you?"""
You're usually very honest and reasonable....why are you making up things about me??
Is it that unconcious hatred for those who don't think the same as you when it comes to religion?
Before the election, conservatives were saying "We don't really know what this man is all about" and now after the election, liberals are saying "I guess we didn't really know what this man is all about."
I didn't vote for Obama and remain somewhat wary of him, but I have to admit that everything he has done so far has earned my respect. He made a lot of promises to a lot of people, and to some extent, we all heard what we wanted to hear, but it makes sense that some of those promises are going to conflict with others, at least in our interpretations and expectations. He made a promise to conservatives, "I will be your president, too." Far from embracing bigotry, Obama is showing by the Pastor Warren invitation that he meant it when he said he would respect and include diverse points of view and focus on finding common ground with those who differ from him in outlook. Clearly he has respect for Pastor Warren and I think the invitation amounts to more than just a bald pandering to evangelicals (many of whom are just as unhappy that Warren accepted!) It would be a problem if Pastor Warren were really the hatemongering bigot that the left has labeled him, but he's not.
For those on the left who are guilty of this -- quit labeling everyone who doesn't agree with you as a "hatemonger" or a "bigot." Those are heavy accusations. Frequent and thoughtless use of these labels will only cause everyone to become desensitized to your grievances. Really think about what "hate" means. Not sanctioning homosexual relations is a classic biblical belief, but there is no hate inherent in that. Hate would involve harassing, assaulting, terrorizing, or murdering. People have a right to their beliefs, something I would think the self-described champions of tolerance would support. Not being able to get a paper marriage license in every state does not constitute hate. Christians also think I'm going to hell for not accepting Jesus as my savior, and I'm convinced it troubles them precisely because they love me and don't want me to go to hell -- their beliefs do not reflect hatred of me! If their beliefs cross over into actions that will harm me, that's another matter altogether.
Pastor Warren's statement that he wouldn't call a homosexual relationship a marriage any more than he would call an incestuous, pedophilic, or polygamous relationship a marriage is not the same as saying he thinks all of these types of relationships are morally equivalent -- rather, he's saying that they are equally inappropriate according to Judeo-Christian teachings. Big difference.
Anyway, good for President-Elect Obama. I have a feeling that conservatives and liberals alike can expect more decisions coming from the White House that will cause some discomfort to someone somewhere. In other words, "we're all gonna get it."
Ha, ha, the ultimate irony of ironies if those who did NOT vote for Obama turn out to support him; while those who DID vote for him turn on him!! He would be wise to keep his security people very close.
You're usually very honest and reasonable....why are you making up things about me??
Is it that unconcious hatred for those who don't think the same as you when it comes to religion?
It's fairly clear you seem to have an intense hatred for all things Christian, yet the other religions seem to get a pass from you, even though their "history" of horrible acts is without rival.
"""So the pogroms and other horrors visited upon their citizens by atheistic communist governments don't bother you? I'm sure the victims in Russia, China, Cambodia, North Korea, etc. etc. would disagree.
And the massive amount of deaths all over the world caused by muslims is fine with you?
And the tribal wars that are wiping out thousands and thousands of people in some African countries doesn't even upset you?"""
You're usually very honest and reasonable....why are you making up things about me??
Is it that unconcious hatred for those who don't think the same as you when it comes to religion?
You made the point that what you are angry about is Christians and that they are responsible for so much horror. I was calling for intellectual honesty that would bring you, and those who think like you, to the understanding that it is NOT only Christians who have caused the horrors visited upon the world. In point of fact, if people actually FOLLOWED the teaching of Christ, there would not be these horrors. His entire ministry was about helping one another, loving one another, and bringing justice to the world. Just because people who call themselves by His name do things of which He would not approve is NOT a reflection of Christianity but of human sin.
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