Munich, Germany (Germans, work, license, English)

[internat]

How did you find racism in Germany? I don't mean you as such but generally speaking.

Originally Posted by palermodude

This is an interesting post. I know Munich very well. I am a dual citizen EU-US, but I am not German. I love Munich. I have never had any problems making friends with the natives there. My ex-wife is from there. It's an excellent place to live and raise a family.

[Michael Di Meo]

Originally Posted by internat

How did you find racism in Germany? I don't mean you as such but generally speaking.

I have lived and worked in 7 different countries, and have worked on projects in about 25 more countries. I have seen racism in every single country - Germany included.

I have never been to a country that did not have some kind of racism, although Sweden came pretty close, and Canada impressed me as well.

If I compare Germany to the States, I would say that Germany is not any more racist than the States. In fact, for certain things, it is less racist.

So ... I saw racism while I was there, but it was not any worse than the US - and in many cases better. I have 3 buddies who are african-american and have decided to stay in Germany, because they felt less discrimination, and I can understand why. (They also fell in love with German women and got married, so they have all had good experiences)

[internat]

Thanks for your reply. May I ask which countries you worked in and do you prefer living in the EU (I know the countries are different from each other) or USA?

There's racism in Sweden against immigrants. People with foreign, usually non-European sounding names, have a difficult time finding even getting job interviews. They aren't also let in bars/clubs etc. It's just not direct. Swedes aren't direct people. Swedes tend to be polite. Read my post on Somalians in Sweden and Minneapolis: //www.city-data.com/forum/minne...ali-story.html

Originally Posted by palermodude

I have never been to a country that did not have some kind of racism, although Sweden came pretty close, and Canada impressed me as well.

[Michael Di Meo]

Originally Posted by internat

Thanks for your reply. May I ask which countries you worked in and do you prefer living in the EU (I know the countries are different from each other) or USA?

There's racism in Sweden against immigrants. People with foreign, usually non-European sounding names, have a difficult time finding even getting job interviews. They aren't also let in bars/clubs etc. It's just not direct. Swedes aren't direct people. Swedes tend to be polite. Read my post on Somalians in Sweden and Minneapolis: //www.city-data.com/forum/minne...ali-story.html

Well, I must say it does not surprise me that you would say that Sweden is also racist, as it confirms that I have not seen one country that is not racist.

I have lived in US, Canada, Mexico, Italy, France, Czech Republic, and Austria. I have worked on projects in every European country, North America, + South America, and AU/NZ.

I prefer some things in the US, and I prefer the EU for other things. I have lived half my life on each continent. It's a hard choice to make. But, I think it's a very personal choice. It depends on the individual's tastes and preferences. However, if I had one choice to make, it would be the EU hands down, and probably Canada second, US third.

[Moth]

How did you find racism in Germany? I don't mean you as such but generally speaking.

Its a mixed bag. There are seemingly more violent incidents there than in other places. At the same time, you see more than a few German women hanging with non-white men.

What struck me as racist, although not in a particularly ferocioius way, was the repeated and stubborn way Germans view non-whites in America. It is quite common for them to declare that "blacks are not really Americans." Perhaps its simply an aversion to the melting pot concept. They also do not seem too accepting of the numerous Turkish people living in Germany. Germany and other nations there do not seem to be bound by the political correctness you find in the US and the UK. The result is that a lot of folks are pretty honest and blunt about whom they dislike and why.

At the end of the day, pretty much anyone can find their niche and thrive there. But, and this may simply be my imagination, there seems to be this unwritten rule that you will never be totally and completely accepted.

And, as Palermodu states, there is no place devoid of some kind of racism. Germany is certainly better than a lot of places.

[Ulysses61]

"They also do not seem too accepting of the numerous Turkish people living in Germany."

Absolutely true. But in my experience living in Germany, most of the Turks did little to integrate into the community. Few even spoke German. I feel that anyone moving to a foreign country needs to learn the native language before they go, or at the very least, learn it ASAP!

[Moth]

Originally Posted by Ulysses61

"They also do not seem too accepting of the numerous Turkish people living in Germany."

Absolutely true. But in my experience living in Germany, most of the Turks did little to integrate into the community. Few even spoke German. I feel that anyone moving to a foreign country needs to learn the native language before they go, or at the very least, learn it ASAP!

Well that is something I concurr with. However, a good many of the Turks have been in Germany since the 1950s and it was only a few years ago that they could become German citizens. If you want immigrants to assimilate, might it not make sense to allow them the ultimate symbol of that- citizenship?

[X-Chi-town-Hipster]

thanks for the advice. What you say makes sense, knowing how they have acted. I will try to be patient, persistent and respectful. I am by no means superficial, just confused a bit.

[MMK440]

Actually, the problem with racism in Germany is getting worse from year to year. Why?
There are several reasons for it but i just want to give some which are not biased (only reflecting the general opinion by many germans as observed and experienced).

There have been several accidents in the past few years where Turkish people or other foreign people comitted crimes on a very large scale including killing random innocent citizens, gang wars taking place on the street risking the lives of others and ruling more and more the underground (e.g. drugs). Most of those people who get caught by the police only get a few years in jail (less than 10) and are allowed to stay in Germany despite their criminal past. Lots of German people start to get angry at this point because everyone who lives in Germany gains the right to access social services. Almost weekly the news report about crimes commited by foreign people but there are no real consequences and the german state continous paying for/ support them (rarely deporting is taking place. And when it is taking place: Foreigners who have integrated themselves very well are the victims (how wise!?).

Of course there are many foreigners in Germany who can integrate themselves very well (speaking german, having a job), but there are also some who just enjoy the higher standards of living without working but instead gaining their money by robbing and paid criminal actions.

Another fact is that there are a lot of cities in Germany (especially the former western part) where the portion of foreigners is so large that you have a hard time to spot someone who is speaking german. As a result germans feel "threatened" by the superior number of foreign people who refuse (again: not all) to speak the german language and who are even allowed to hold public demonstrations in whatever language they wish.

Some germans also like to say that foreigners are taking away the jobs of germans which is just a plain stupid argument. There are so many germans not willing to work in certain jobs that we actually need foreigners willing to work for them or we would have no one at all doing the job.

The main reason for racism is basically: The media reporting about crimes from foreign people without major consequences for them.

I am sure there are lots of other countries having similar problems but in Germany it is a problem that leads slowly to more racism (especially in the eastern part (at one of the last elections there was a village voting for a political party which is against foreigners with more than 20%)).

I hope not having offended someone and I tried to be neutral over the entire post. If someone should still feel offended...please inform me and I will delete this post immidiately.

[travelblue]

This has been a really interesting exchange of opinions and insights of 'living in Germany " .. yet all you have to do is to exchange the names of the cities to ..oh lets say Boston , St. Paul , Raleigh .. whatever .. and "Germany" with "USA" "Turkish" with 'Hispanic" etc. , and there you have it .. problems , complaints , likes , dislikes..it becomes interchangeable
As an German Immigrant ,40+ years ago , I too had my share of biased people ,it didn't particular bother me.. I had no control over my place of birth , so if you are stupid enough to discriminate against me because of my color or Nationality, why should I waste my breath or emotion on you ???
We are a hardheaded people, yet in defense of all "loud &proud " Germans &Texans .. I had great fun at the "Wurstfest' in New Braunfels , Texas .. now there is a goooooood combination !!!
I noticed my city of birth "Karlsruhe " mentioned a few times, it is a wonderful city , great location with many of the scenic places of Germany , Switzerland and France within easy driving distance .
..and just to give my 2cents worth ... I have lifelong friends of many nationalities ..Friendships have to be nourished ..in any language.. now there is my deep wisdom for today , ya'll