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Personally I think that these countries are in Central Europe, historically, culturally and politically. And as people living in Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia and Croatia don't like the label "Eastern European", I won't call them that either, and as mostly it isn't even true. When you go deep down into the Balkans it might be a different story, but that is a thing of another thread.
That could easily be extended to the Baltics as well. They seem to also want to have a distinct identity away from 'Eastern Europe' as well. Isn't Estonia even trying to tie their identity at least a little bit to Finland?
That could easily be extended to the Baltics as well. They seem to also want to have a distinct identity away from 'Eastern Europe' as well. Isn't Estonia even trying to tie their identity at least a little bit to Finland?
No idea about Balkans either though.
On the contrary some of the young Estonians tries to distant themselves from Finland, as they don't want to be a "little brother", as we were/are to Sweden. And they shouldn't be that.
Latvia and Lithuania is a different thing, though. Those are the real gateway between East and West, and at least in my experience Latvians and Lithuanians are more like "semi-Russians" compared to Czechs, Slovaks and Hungarians I've had contact with. Sadly, Latvians and Lithuanians have been the most difficult and uncompromising that I had to work with, so it may play a part.
On the contrary some of the young Estonians tries to distant themselves from Finland, as they don't want to be a "little brother", as we were/are to Sweden. And they shouldn't be that.
Latvia and Lithuania is a different thing, though. Those are the real gateway between East and West, and at least in my experience Latvians and Lithuanians are more like "semi-Russians" compared to Czechs, Slovaks and Hungarians I've had contact with. Sadly, Latvians and Lithuanians have been the most difficult and uncompromising that I had to work with, so it may play a part.
I was not in Lithuania or Latvia, so I can not judge. But if you are right in your observation, I just hope that in the course of next years and decades, this semi-russianes eventually vanish. IMHO Latvians and Lithuanians deserve to be accepted in West. No Western nation have as tragic 20th century history as these Balts (and of course Estonians). Do you know about your countrywoman Sofi Oksanen? In my humble opinion, Western World needs much more Sofi Oksanens.
If somebody calls me "your are sh*t", I tend to oppose! Eastern Europe is poor, backward and historically they didnt actually belong to Western civilization. Eastern Europe is, as Noam Chomsky told, the original third world. If it doesnt matter to you to be called white n*gger or European analogy of Mexican, for me it does matter. I suppose it is not such exaggerated claim to be called normal country.
And by the way, for thousand year we have belonged to Western civilization. Do you really think that forty years under Russian domination could destroy previous thousand years of history?
Noam Chomsky is a descendent of Russian Jews, and Jews are far more the "original third world" than Russians ever will be.
The true base for the "first world nations" were Germanic people ( and countries where their descendents most likely became the upper crust of the societies.) Russia is the only notable exception, and according to what we see in history, Czechoslovakia was not part of that world; otherwise it wouldn't have been taken over by Germans.
FrankCostello I totally agree with when you said "you seem to be assuming that upon the Russian invasion the territory of former Austrian empire was split into some sort of Eastern and Western Europe... i find that laughable" You hit the nail on the head! I totally agree!
In fact it was.
Even if to take in consideration "Eastern Europe" as purely political terminology.
Have you ever worked/lived abroad? At the end of the day people judge you based on what kind of person you are, how you behave, not where you are from. I do not feel superior to the Ukrainians or the Serbs just because my country is situated more western than their countries. I did not choose where I was born. You are right. Historically, culturally Czech Republic have much more in common with Western Europe (especially Austria and Germany) than with Eastern Europe. We both know that but I really care what clever, intelligent people think about me or my country. I do not care about the rest. Why would I? By repeating that Czech Republic is NOT Eastern Europe you are just showing an inferiority complex. And I do not think we need this... Try to think about it
I completely understand the stigma with Eastern Europe and the past in Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary. There was a small one here as well, as Finland wasn't really politically on the west side on the iron curtain, but not east either. So some think that Finland is a kind of a meeting place for the East and West, especially when we speak an odd language. But this isn't the truth. We've been in the west at least since the 1100's.
The term "Eastern Europe" (unless you mean geographically) is entirely political, based on politics that ceased to exist over 2 decades ago.
To my understanding, people living in most countries considered as "Eastern Europe" considers the term as very degrading and offensive, not only the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary but also Poland, Romania, Croatia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania etc, not sure about what Belarusians and Ukrainians thinks though. People should therefore refrain from using it as its outdated and considered offensive. There is for example no such thing as any common East European culture etc.
The term "Western Europe" is very political as well, as the "western" in it does not only refer to the pre-1990's politics, but also refers to whats considered as the "western world".
Just like many countries considered as "Eastern Europe" are not eastern, many countries considered as "Western Europe" are not western either, examples being Sweden, Norway, Finland, Austria, Switzerland, Greece etc.
Last edited by Helsingborgaren; 07-12-2014 at 11:56 AM..
and Jews are far more the "original third world" than Russians ever will be.
I declare this to be the most ridiculous post a Russian ever posted on here (and boy, that's a thing considering the Ukraine thread). Your medal can be picked up in Central Vienna. Enjoy!
and thus making it part of the "West," while Russia, signing the deal with the Byzantium decided to be part of the "East."
Because that's what it's really all about.
Ultimately, yes. Don't know what would've happened otherwise, maybe the Danish would've taken another shot or then maybe we would've fallen under the Eastern moloch, I would spell in this fashion KNTPRBCTPETRCHRBURH, wear adidas trackpants and beat up gays at the moment.
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