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They've tried that - to send "Praviy sector" to the Eastern part of the country.
Should I remind you how it all ended?
or that video that you've posted earlier yourself? ( here is the different version of it.)
Besides, the "revolutionaries" have already served their purpose; the current government wants to have its hands clean, to come across as the "civilized one," that has got nothing to do with the ultra-right groups.
That's why it would rather hire the "professionals," when it's aiming to get loans from the "civilized West."
But those are kids and old men. I think those are just local "normal" people. The local pro Russian should wave and burn the red-and-black flags which the Right Sector always carries. Now only one scared boy carried a sticker.
But it doesn't matter anymore anyway, as the Right Sector leaders are being arrested and other demilitarized. And the long-bun-head already said she uses nuclear weapons...
But those are kids and old men. I think those are just local "normal" people. The local pro Russian should wave and burn the red-and-black flags which the Right Sector always carries. Now only one scared boy carried a sticker.
But it doesn't matter anymore anyway, as the Right Sector leaders are being arrested and other demilitarized. And the long-bun-head already said she uses nuclear weapons...
I think that "Praviy sector" does recruit a lot of youngsters and I was shocked to see the kind of hatred that even a sticker ( or the name of Bandera for this matter) provoke in he crowd in Eastern Ukraine.
So no, you can't use those to "control" Eastern Ukrainians, so its' time to turn to Americans for "establishing order," apparently.
Regarding the actual subject, I think Ruth covered one aspect pretty well: Personal relationships -- trust -- is a core component in sealing most business deals in Russia; this is generally not the case in most Western societies. Personal relationships can lend themselves easier to corruption should the two parties: A) Find it easier/cheaper to go that route, and B) Have the same views on going that route. Trust is integral, since if you deal with someone you don't trust, you might find yourself in a heap of trouble should they turn you in for corruption. Since corruption is endemic to Russia (erasure, it is just dishonest to imply that corruption in Russia has stemmed from Western banking; it has been a part of the culture for hundreds of years -- since the time of Peter the Great...but you know that, don't you), it isn't difficult to find pliable partners for a corrupt transaction.
The main cause of corruption -- just like in most places -- is bureaucracy and lack of transparency. There is a tendency for Russian governments/businesses to create larger-than-needed bureaucracies, which lead to labyrinthine layers to get through in order to get things accomplished. To give an example for Americans: We all know how awful it is to go to the DMV. Why? Because it's a bureaucracy, layered in paperwork and long lines. Imagine if you could pay $50 to bypass those lines and get your work done faster/easier. Now, imagine that most parts of society were that way: You can then see where corruption stems from.
I helped found and open a successful business in Russia. Although I expected levels of graft and corruption, I couldn't imagine how deeply it touched nearly every part of the process of opening the business. From the licensing process to the fire warden giving out certification, there were plenty of palms to grease, and often the offending parties weren't even discreet about it.
Corruption in Russia is not a weakness of character, but an inability to create organizations which aren't bureaucratic nightmares and an atmosphere of transparency.
Regarding the actual subject, I think Ruth covered one aspect pretty well: Personal relationships -- trust -- is a core component in sealing most business deals in Russia; this is generally not the case in most Western societies. Personal relationships can lend themselves easier to corruption should the two parties: A) Find it easier/cheaper to go that route, and B) Have the same views on going that route. Trust is integral, since if you deal with someone you don't trust, you might find yourself in a heap of trouble should they turn you in for corruption. Since corruption is endemic to Russia (erasure, it is just dishonest to imply that corruption in Russia has stemmed from Western banking; it has been a part of the culture for hundreds of years -- since the time of Peter the Great...but you know that, don't you), it isn't difficult to find pliable partners for a corrupt transaction.
Just in case you didn't notice Jeff, I've already responded to Ruth here that certain type of corruption is indeed built in Russian culture and nepotism would be probably part of it.
Corruption of course has always been part of Russian culture ( bigger or smaller, depending on different historic periods), however the endemic corruption that overwhelmed Russian society to no end came precisely in post Soviet times, and I'll repeat again that the source of this particular scourge IS Western banking.
You need to keep in mind that the Soviet system (as suffocating and inefficient as it was,) was still standing for certain moral values, where the post Soviet capitalism in Russia cancelled moral values all together. From the day one, when anyone could find a way to pillage, rob, kill, then collect money and stack them away in Western banks, thus becoming a "respectful businessman," money became the only source of law and power. And with that any trust in any other laws disappeared within the post-Soviet society; everything became a matter of "sale," the only question was the price. For the new upper class ( that acquired all the money) it was quite convenient outcome; for the rest of population it became the grim reality. The Western banking was providing the cover, protection of privacy and legitimacy for those who robbed, while leaving the rest of Russian population at their mercy. So the lesson that your average Russian learned in that day was that he/she can be robbed at any time and there is no law to punish the perpetrators, since once they take their loot and disappear abroad, that's where the rights of the general population ends, and protection of crooks begins. And that's how the system kept on running up until recent times; the upper class recycling the money and stashing them in the West and the rest of population having no control over this process, complying with the fact that they have to pay extras for each and every little thing, since the whole society operates not on the premises of law and order, but on idea that has been set in place in the nineties that everything should be "bought and sold."
So that's the main cause of corruption, not just "bureaucracy and lack of transparency," although the big part of this "lack of transparency" are precisely the murky deals that are arranged with the help of foreign banks, "offshore accounts" and the rest.
Do you think that Putin turned to Orthodox clergy for help with no good reason?
He ( out of all people) figured out the void of any morals that the nineties left Russian population with, and since he is not the one who is going to acknowledge the source of it for obvious reason, Putin came up with such convenient solution as turning to religion to fill this void, thinking that whatever Russian monarchs were using before him will work this time around as well. But from everything I see developing there it won't.
Just in case you didn't notice Jeff, I've already responded to Ruth here that certain type of corruption is indeed built in Russian culture and nepotism would be probably part of it.
Corruption of course has always been part of Russian culture ( bigger or smaller, depending on different historic periods), however the endemic corruption that overwhelmed Russian society to no end came precisely in post Soviet times, and I'll repeat again that the source of this particular scourge IS Western banking.
You need to keep in mind that the Soviet system (as suffocating and inefficient as it was,) was still standing for certain moral values, where the post Soviet capitalism in Russia cancelled moral values all together. From the day one, when anyone could find a way to pillage, rob, kill, then collect money and stack them away in Western banks, thus becoming a "respectful businessman," money became the only source of law and power. And with that any trust in any other laws disappeared within the post-Soviet society; everything became a matter of "sale," the only question was the price. For the new upper class ( that acquired all the money) it was quite convenient outcome; for the rest of population it became the grim reality. The Western banking was providing the cover, protection of privacy and legitimacy for those who robbed, while leaving the rest of Russian population at their mercy. So the lesson that your average Russian learned in that day was that he/she can be robbed at any time and there is no law to punish the perpetrators, since once they take their loot and disappear abroad, that's where the rights of the general population ends, and protection of crooks begins. And that's how the system kept on running up until recent times; the upper class recycling the money and stashing them in the West and the rest of population having no control over this process, complying with the fact that they have to pay extras for each and every little thing, since the whole society operates not on the premises of law and order, but on idea that has been set in place in the nineties that everything should be "bought and sold."
So that's the main cause of corruption, not just "bureaucracy and lack of transparency," although the big part of this "lack of transparency" are precisely the murky deals that are arranged with the help of foreign banks, "offshore accounts" and the rest.
Do you think that Putin turned to Orthodox clergy for help with no good reason?
He ( out of all people) figured out the void of any morals that the nineties left Russian population with, and since he is not the one who is going to acknowledge the source of it for obvious reason, Putin came up with such convenient solution as turning to religion to fill this void, thinking that whatever Russian monarchs were using before him will work this time around as well. But from everything I see developing there it won't.
Fair enough. I missed that part of your response to Ruth.
However, the root of corruption is not Western banking. Lack of transparency and bureaucracy are consistent throughout the country's history (apart from perhaps Stalin's time). It is due to this root that the leviathan that is corruption was able to flourish. As such, while I would agree that Western banks have had an effect on the scale of corruption, but to blame them as the reason is convenient, but not altogether accurate.
Much of the corruption I personally experienced was small-scale. Those faceless, soulless bureaucrats/police/etc. weren't dealing with Western banks.
I find it interesting that Putin did in fact turn to the churches, where graft is endemic as well.
Fair enough. I missed that part of your response to Ruth.
However, the root of corruption is not Western banking. Lack of transparency and bureaucracy are consistent throughout the country's history (apart from perhaps Stalin's time). It is due to this root that the leviathan that is corruption was able to flourish. As such, while I would agree that Western banks have had an effect on the scale of corruption, but to blame them as the reason is convenient, but not altogether accurate.
OK, then let's put it this way - the reason behind this scale of corruption that became unmanageable like never before is Western banking.
Quote:
Much of the corruption I personally experienced was small-scale. Those faceless, soulless bureaucrats/police/etc. weren't dealing with Western banks.
The problem is you never know who these particular bureaucrats are "connected" with, to whom they send their "cut" and whether those with whom they *share the profits* are a part of bigger "круговая порука" or not, (since I can't even find the English equivalent for this expression.)
Quote:
I find it interesting that Putin did in fact turn to the churches, where graft is endemic as well.
Well I've already pointed at the reason - graft or not, it's his way of "instilling morals" in population and channeling the general anxiety away from his throne.
OK, then let's put it this way - the reason behind this scale of corruption that became unmanageable like never before is Western banking.
The problem is you never know who these particular bureaucrats are "connected" with, to whom they send their "cut" and whether those with whom they *share the profits* are a part of bigger "круговая порука" or not, (since I can't even find the English equivalent for this expression.)
Well I've already pointed at the reason - graft or not, it's his way of "instilling morals" in population and channeling the general anxiety away from his throne.
I agree with all that, though I do have a hard time thinking the traffic cop who shafted my wife and me out of 1000 rubles in Mnogo-Ubdobnaya, Russia has close ties with Western banks. I could be wrong.
(BTW, the closest approximation I would use for круговая порука in this context is probably "syndicate".)
Corruption of course has always been part of Russian culture ( bigger or smaller, depending on different historic periods), however the endemic corruption that overwhelmed Russian society to no end came precisely in post Soviet times, and I'll repeat again that the source of this particular scourge IS Western banking.
Corruption was absolutely endemic to the Soviet system. See: The Art of the Bribe: Corruption and Everyday Practice in the Late Stalinist USSR (http://www.ucis.pitt.edu/nceeer/2007_820-7g_Heinzen.pdf) It was small-scale bribes and not the billion dollar machinations of current oligarchs, but it was just as pervasive as it is now. “Western banking” may make it easier for people to move their ill-gotten gains, but it’s a tool, not a cause. Blaming Russian corruption on banking is like blaming drug abuse on the chemistry.
Corruption was absolutely endemic to the Soviet system. See: The Art of the Bribe: Corruption and Everyday Practice in the Late Stalinist USSR (http://www.ucis.pitt.edu/nceeer/2007_820-7g_Heinzen.pdf) It was small-scale bribes and not the billion dollar machinations of current oligarchs, but it was just as pervasive as it is now.
No it was not and for a good reason. I've read the material you gave the link to - this is a poorly written paper, based on a lot of speculations, hear-say and inconclusive results. When it states that "Scholars have generally believed that the late-Stalin period saw little real graft among officials," and "Scholars asserted a sharp break between two periods: they contrasted the essentially corruption-free late-Stalin years with the much more brazen post-Stalin, and especially Brezhnev era," the author doesn't make any attempts on dispoving or arguing this fact, but instead proceeds on a subject of "excellent sociological work examining the relationship between economic crime and informal practices in Russia in the 1980s and 1990s periods." Hence the author himself is forced to accept the logical conclusion that no matter how much he'd like to expose the "Art of the Bribe" in Stalinist USSR, the post-Stalin's society was far more brazen in this respect. Therefore it makes more sense to compare the consequences of American involvement in internal Russian affairs in terms of bribe-giving not with extraordinary difficult post-war times, but with those "brazen 70ies-80ies of Brezhnev's period, because the 90ies were already not quite Soviet period, but rather post-Soviet.
To begin with - the USSR was a welfare state, where the necessities of Soviet citizens were covered by the said above state for free, and even with comparably low salaries the cost of shelter/utilities/transportation was miniscule; same with price of food and child care. Therefore teachers/bookkeepers/police/nurses and many other people in lower-paid occupations during Soviet period DIDN'T HAVE to rely on bribes in the same manner as some waiters in the US have to rely on tips in order to fill the gap of extremely low salaries. That's number one. Number two - since the money were not a driving force behind the society, they were not as much in demand as "blat," right connections, prestige, goods and services. Heck, even the bribe for secretaries/teachers was coming not in form of money, but expensive bottle of vine/box of candies. And even when money were changing hands, they were still remaining in the country, keeping working for Russian economy.
The Western banking however ( that came with the most vicious form of capitalism in Russia) effectively helped to siphon money out of the country, created a class exclusively protected by advantages of this banking and assertion that only money rule the society. With money concentrated then in the hands of a few, the rest of population plunged into abject poverty, now forced to buy services that it used to get from the state for free and forced to pay bribes that supplement the meager salaries, that can't cover any longer the cost of shelter/utilities and so on, that skyrocketed comparably to Soviet times.
So that's the difference between the bribery of Soviet times and corruption of post-Soviet times facilitated with the help of Western banking.
Quote:
“Western banking” may make it easier for people to move their ill-gotten gains, but it’s a tool, not a cause. Blaming Russian corruption on banking is like blaming drug abuse on the chemistry.
I know some people like catchy phrases in America, something like "Guns don't kill people" but catchy phrases are just that - catchy phrases.
the Rouble is virtually worthless outside of Russia.
The more things change, the more they stay the same. Has the ruble ever NOT been worthless outside Russia? If there ever was such a moment in time, I missed it.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 03-26-2014 at 10:39 PM..
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The local pro Russian should wave and burn the red-and-black flags which the Right Sector always carries. Now only one scared boy carried a sticker._flag._Euromaidan,_Kyiv,_Ukraine._Events_of_February_22,_2014..jpg/640px-Pravyi_Sektor_(Right_Sector)_flag._Euromaidan,_Kyiv,_Ukraine._Events_of_February_22,_2014..jpg)
