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Old 03-26-2014, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Corona the I.E.
10,137 posts, read 17,474,280 times
Reputation: 9140

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My friend lived in Ukraine for 4 years, no longer thank god, and he said the cops shake people down. One offered to tune up his GF's ex for money with his cop buddies.
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Old 03-26-2014, 11:21 PM
 
26,778 posts, read 22,521,872 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
The more things change, the more they stay the same. Has the ruble ever NOT been worthless outside Russia? If there ever was such a moment in time, I missed it.
Yes, you've missed it; it used to be European currency back in the day and here is the proof;

"Это хорошо, что в Европе за рубль дают полтину, будет хуже, если за него начнут давать в морду".
(Салтыков-Щедрин)

Loosely translated -

"It's not too bad when we get half of value for our ruble in Europe; it's going to be worse when we are going to be punched in the face for it."))))

M. Saltykov-Shedrin
1826-1889

Mikhail Saltykov-Shchedrin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 03-28-2014, 01:21 PM
 
Location: New York City
4,035 posts, read 10,292,881 times
Reputation: 3753
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
The Western banking however ( that came with the most vicious form of capitalism in Russia) effectively helped to siphon money out of the country, created a class exclusively protected by advantages of this banking and assertion that only money rule the society. With money concentrated then in the hands of a few, the rest of population plunged into abject poverty, now forced to buy services that it used to get from the state for free and forced to pay bribes that supplement the meager salaries, that can't cover any longer the cost of shelter/utilities and so on, that skyrocketed comparably to Soviet times.

So that's the difference between the bribery of Soviet times and corruption of post-Soviet times facilitated with the help of Western banking.
Singapore is often ranked as the least corrupt country in the world—and it is both non-Western and a global banking center. Banking, per se, has nothing to do with corruption. Russia’s problem it that it tried to transition to a capitalist system without cleaning up the corruption that already existed in society at large. It merely transitioned into what Vaclav Havel vividly described as “gangster capitalism.” You’re clearly interested in blaming “the West” for every misfortune that happened to Russia. That may make you feel better, but it does nothing to address the systemic failings of the Russian economy. Petro-states have the option of being either Venezuela or Norway. It’s not a conspiracy—merely the fundamentals of economics.
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:28 PM
 
26,778 posts, read 22,521,872 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpk-nyc View Post
Singapore is often ranked as the least corrupt country in the world—and it is both non-Western and a global banking center.
You are confusing some insignificant island that has been set ( in its modern form) to serve the interests of the British Empire, with a major country that was not meant to serve the financial interests of the West.

Founding of modern Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Banking, per se, has nothing to do with corruption.
But it can be successfully used for it, and I've already explained to you how exactly.

Quote:
Russia’s problem it that it tried to transition to a capitalist system without cleaning up the corruption that already existed in society at large.
Even if the corruption has existed "in society at large," the society was transitioning to the new system, and corruption Soviet style was simply inapplicable any longer in this new system of private property and market economy.
Quote:
It merely transitioned into what Vaclav Havel vividly described as “gangster capitalism.” You’re clearly interested in blaming “the West” for every misfortune that happened to Russia.
Not for "every misfortune," but for very specific ones. Such as shock therapy, transfer of country's riches into few hands, deprivation of country's ability to create middle class, and with it - civil society, law and order.

Quote:
That may make you feel better, but it does nothing to address the systemic failings of the Russian economy.
What I've said above, addresses "systematic failure" of Russian economy since the nineties just fine, because that's how the nineties were precisely designed - to turn Russia into supplier of natural resources, set to serve the West, with semi-colonial status, the kind Russia had before bolsheviks came to power.

Quote:
Petro-states have the option of being either Venezuela or Norway. It’s not a conspiracy—merely the fundamentals of economics.
I'm sorry, you are getting confused here. To begin with, Venezuela is a former colony, Norway - a European country. That's the prime difference to begin with and "fundamentals of economics." The fact that both have oil comes already secondary.

Last edited by erasure; 03-28-2014 at 10:49 PM..
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Old 03-29-2014, 09:29 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,188 posts, read 107,790,902 times
Reputation: 116087
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Yes, you've missed it; it used to be European currency back in the day and here is the proof;

"Это хорошо, что в Европе за рубль дают полтину, будет хуже, если за него начнут давать в морду".
(Салтыков-Щедрин)

Loosely translated -

"It's not too bad when we get half of value for our ruble in Europe; it's going to be worse when we are going to be punched in the face for it."))))

M. Saltykov-Shedrin
1826-1889

Mikhail Saltykov-Shchedrin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
hahaha! That was WA-AY before my time! Thanks!
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Old 04-01-2014, 08:05 AM
 
Location: New York City
4,035 posts, read 10,292,881 times
Reputation: 3753
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
I'm sorry, you are getting confused here. To begin with, Venezuela is a former colony, Norway - a European country. That's the prime difference to begin with and "fundamentals of economics." The fact that both have oil comes already secondary.
Both countries, like Russia, get enormous revenues directly from oil and gas. Norway invests the money in education and infrastructure to grow its economy while the excess goes into a sovereign wealth fund. Venezuelan spends all of the money to maintain political power while doing nothing to develop its overall economy. As such, even though energy prices are still high, the country is broke and a complete mess.

Culture and history have nothing to do with it. Either a country stewards its resources and invests for the future or loses it through corruption and spending. Putin believes that Russia has a unique history and culture and that any example or precedent (in politics, economic, human rights, etc.) from elsewhere simply doesn’t apply. This is both dangerous and nonsensical.
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:39 PM
 
26,778 posts, read 22,521,872 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpk-nyc View Post
Both countries, like Russia, get enormous revenues directly from oil and gas. Norway invests the money in education and infrastructure to grow its economy while the excess goes into a sovereign wealth fund. Venezuelan spends all of the money to maintain political power while doing nothing to develop its overall economy. As such, even though energy prices are still high, the country is broke and a complete mess.

Culture and history have nothing to do with it.
You think so?
Then provide us please with a list of former colonies and tell us how they stack against the Western countries; income, education, technology development, poverty level and the rest.


Quote:
Putin believes that Russia has a unique history and culture and that any example or precedent (in politics, economic, human rights, etc.) from elsewhere simply doesn’t apply. This is both dangerous and nonsensical.
"Nonsensical" is a belief that history/cultural background of the countries have nothing to do with where they stand today, sorry to say.
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Old 04-03-2014, 03:53 AM
 
2,042 posts, read 2,903,095 times
Reputation: 1546
The USA is a former colony :-)
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:02 AM
 
26,778 posts, read 22,521,872 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffpv View Post
The USA is a former colony :-)
...where the native population has been simply replaced. Same case with Australia, same case with Canada.
So now let's talk about former colonies WITH native population.
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:23 PM
 
Location: New York City
4,035 posts, read 10,292,881 times
Reputation: 3753
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
You think so?
Then provide us please with a list of former colonies and tell us how they stack against the Western countries; income, education, technology development, poverty level and the rest.
Qatar, the UAE and other Gulf states are former colonies who are investing their oil revenues in education and infrastructure for the future. Of course, these counties have lots of other issues, but the point is that being prudent and farsighted has nothing to do with being Western, or a former colony, or anything else.
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