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During my two years in Moscow (1992-1994), I was repeatedly impressed by the breadth of high-quality, secondary (non-University) education. Everyone whom I met (mostly working in the oil-and-gas sector) had a reasonably sophisticated intellect, even though many had not gone to university.
Moscow is the capital of the biggest empire of the world. Many of the most active and initiative people come to the capital to earn more money and to have a high standard of life. This takes place in all countries but in Russia especially (for example Ukraine isn't such centralized state as Russia).
Moscow is the capital of the biggest empire of the world. Many of the most active and initiative people come to the capital to earn more money and to have a high standard of life. This takes place in all countries but in Russia especially (for example Ukraine isn't such centralized state as Russia).
If he/she was there in 1992-1994, we speak first of all about Soviet secondary education.
This system of education was UNIVERSAL, across the whole Russian Federation, not "just in Moscow." ( It was only somewhat different in other Soviet Republics, because of the national issues/national languages were involved.) It was based on German system of education, that was in place in Tzarist Russia for the upper class only, but dutifully returned by Stalin ( tweaked a bit I would think) and offered for EVERYONE. It produced outstanding results first of all where math and science were concerned, but that doesn't mean that it was not giving the well-rounded, in-depth education overall.
Russians knew already for long time that their school-children were far more advanced in their studies comparably to American children. It was the POST-Soviet Russia, with its americanized system of education that started producing poor results in this respect, with no delay.
West hates Russia, because it's too big and independent and does not like gay movement. What are the news here?
Obviously corrupted morons in UEFA will use every excuse to get rid of potential world champion.
Russian team have the excellent coach. But I do not think that we can become champion. And it's not world championship. ))
No it's not the typical behaviour of most English fans, we have one of the safest leagues in the world, and it was organised hooligans from France itself and indeed Rusia who caused most of this. The vast majority of England fans were just there to watch the game, it was the Russians who stormed in like some kind of paramilitary hooligan force.
"...Allsop said he had been looking for his 24-year-old son during the violence when he was attacked. “About 300 Russians came out of nowhere. They just walked straight through all the England fans who were standing about singing,” he said. “The Russians just started hitting anyone they could.
“One went to punch me, I ducked and punched him back to defend myself. I had to. But then someone took a bat to my arm. It is killing me today. I have got tickets for the semi-final but I wouldn’t come if it was here. Later, on the way to the game, a group of locals starting spitting at us. We told them to stop and they took out knives on us. The police were nowhere."...
Someone took a bat to his arm. It's amazing how the Western media can turn everything upside down. Continue to trust your media, it's the best in the world.
Violence is integral to Russian culture, so the scenes in Marseille are unsurprising. Russia is the last bastion of barbarism in Europe, and there is little hope for that depressing corner of the world. It is a mental asylum, taken over by the lunatics.
I'm sure there are Russians who don't fit the above description - but most of them have already left the country. Living in Russia isn't a choice - it's a burden.
Now, before one of our resident Russkis comes barreling down on me because my tone towards Russia is anything other than complimentary - I have no false illusions of my own country. English fans have a reputation for hooliganism - but this isn't the 1980s. The kind of hooliganism English fans partook in back then was premeditated and well-organised. They were ruthless, extremely violent and didn't care. These groups of people now face lifetime bans and are not allowed to attend away games in Europe. It is pretty clear to anyone with eyes, and half a brain, that the English fans in Marseille were not prepared for what happened, nor expecting it. There is a difference between throwing bottles and being drunk (which itself further reduces your ability to react quickly to outside stimulus), and randomly attacking lone fans, trampling on their heads, knocking them unconscious and beating them so severely that they are now in a medically-induced coma and their survival is less than certain. Not only were these lunatics randomly attacking fans who had no interest in fighting, they also attacked families - children and women.
If two rival groups want to organise a fight - go for it. Kick each other senseless. Maybe do the world a favour and wipe each other from existence. What is not okay, however, is planning to attack a group of people without them knowing about it - charging up to random people on the street because they happen to be wearing England shirts and then proceeding to viciously attack them.
Sorry, Russia and Russians, but for any country to improve on itself, you must first admit that a problem exists. Only then will you deal with it. A lot of people are unlikely to attend the next Russian match because of what happened in Marseille. People are actively avoiding Russians - you are developing a very negative reputation within Europe - well more negative than the one you already had. You can comfort yourself by saying that it's Western propaganda out to rubbish Russia's saintly reputation (lol) but the rest of the world is watching you - and what we are seeing isn't very pretty.
The only logical course to follow now, is stripping Russia of its right to hold the 2018 World Cup, and banning these Russian Ultras from attending any European matches in the future - keep that crap in Russia, where it belongs, and allow your men to beat each other senselessly (and with a life expectancy some 10 years shorter than women, it must be working).
Last edited by dunno what to put here; 06-14-2016 at 03:24 PM..
Violence is integral to Russian culture, so the scenes in Marseille are unsurprising. Russia is the last bastion of barbarism in Europe, and there is little hope for that depressing corner of the world. It is a mental asylum, taken over by the lunatics.
I'm sure there are Russians who don't fit the above description - but most of them have already left the country. Living in Russia isn't a choice - it's a burden.
Now, before one of our resident Russkis comes barreling down on me because my tone towards Russia is anything other than complimentary - I have no false illusions of my own country. English fans have a reputation for hooliganism - but this isn't the 1980s. The kind of hooliganism English fans partook in back then was premeditated and well-organised. They were ruthless, extremely violent and didn't care. These groups of people now face lifetime bans and are not allowed to attend away games in Europe. It is pretty clear to anyone with eyes, and half a brain, that the English fans in Marseille were not prepared for what happened, nor expecting it. There is a difference between throwing bottles and being drunk (which itself further reduces your ability to react quickly to outside stimulus), and randomly attacking lone fans, trampling on their heads, knocking them unconscious and beating them so severely that they are now in a medically-induced coma and their survival is less than certain. Not only were these lunatics randomly attacking fans who had no interest in fighting, they also attacked families - children and women.
If two rival groups want to organise a fight - go for it. Kick each other senseless. Maybe do the world a favour and wipe each other from existence. What is not okay, however, is planning to attack a group of people without them knowing about it - charging up to random people on the street because they happen to be wearing England shirts and then proceeding to viciously attack them.
*Sigh*
I don't know Dunno, (since I haven't been there,) but I'll probably have to side with you here rather than with Maxim. From the look of it, it did come across that British *supporters* ( as British media refers to them) in this case were more about being drunk and loud, than aggressive in a sense of targeting someone to maim and hurt. So basically the way I see it, Russians used the REPUTATION of British fans as being "aggressive" as an excuse to attack them.
There are two types of Russians that *fight* as far as I know.
The first type is very quite, but deadly when provoked. It's not easy to provoke them though, and these people usually keep the "low key."
And then there is the second type - boastful and aggressive, looking for any chance to attack, seeking for any pretense of "being challenged." At that, there is no sentiment of "friendly competition" involved, no trace of it that you see in Britons. It's all about the ultimate "dominance" by any price.
And by the look of it, that's the kind of people that were involved in attack in Marseille.
So...
That's why it was my question why this kind of debauchery ( the kind the British fans exhibit) is even allowed internationally?
Because it IS challenging, and with no understanding that this kind of challenging might get unwarranted "response" this situation MIGHT become deadly.
Which it came pretty close to as far as I understand. And it's international level, and it's just a sport for Christ's sake...
The sad thing is, is that if Russian fans are going to be banned from international soccer games, Russians will never understand the REAL reason behind it. Because in Russian culture, if you are boastful ( as British fans are,) YOU ARE asking for trouble yourself. There is no "playful part" for the most in Russian culture, the way it's present in Anglo-cultures, and this is true on many levels.
If he/she was there in 1992-1994, we speak first of all about Soviet secondary education.
This system of education was UNIVERSAL, across the whole Russian Federation, not "just in Moscow." ( It was only somewhat different in other Soviet Republics, because of the national issues/national languages were involved.) It was based on German system of education, that was in place in Tzarist Russia for the upper class only, but dutifully returned by Stalin ( tweaked a bit I would think) and offered for EVERYONE. It produced outstanding results first of all where math and science were concerned, but that doesn't mean that it was not giving the well-rounded, in-depth education overall.
Russians knew already for long time that their school-children were far more advanced in their studies comparably to American children. It was the POST-Soviet Russia, with its americanized system of education that started producing poor results in this respect, with no delay.
I am a He. Yes, those years reflected the product of the Soviet system. I am a bit of a math whiz, and I did notice the high proficiency in science, but what impressed me more in Russia was the 'liberal arts' aspect, particularly the widespread knowledge of literature.
America has a highly varied system of public education, so I'm not sure if there can be a singular standard 'Americanized' system or approach. As Robert Frost wrote, "America is hard to see."
In the US, public schools are largely self-selected by location, usually reflecting the wealth of the parents -- each big US metro includes at least one or two excellent public school districts with a German-style Gymnasium, focused on academics and feeding into the Ivy League colleges.
Each metro in the US also has an area of crap schools, often 'warehousing' the children of minority groups: One of the significant, difficult problems yet to be resolved here. This website (City-Data) has many threads that address specifically US public schools by city or region.
I did not know that the Soviet secondary educational model had Germanic antecedents. That history should really be a book itself.
You're right I've never been to Russia (and judging by their politians comments after the problems in France never intend to) so tell me Gulag's never existed?
Can't deny that, they were there. All you have to do is look at a picture of Russia at night and you will see a band of lights stretching far to the east from Moscow. From my information a lot of that was created by the Gulag system and those in it. The USSR was not the first country to ever have such a system. America has an even bigger one today. Texas is a state filled with Gulags. A lot of them private ventures. Scarey.
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Stalin didn't murder millions?
No he didn't. It would take a long time for one man to kill millions. A lot of what is said to happen just doesn't make sense. If you add up all the deaths that supposedly happened from WWI through revolution and all the strife of the interwar years to the end of WWII it comes to the high 10s (100+?) of millions over a period of 30 years. It was apparently so bad that the population could not sustain itself and the Soviet government commanded all Russian women to have litters instead of the normal births I guess?
Common sense tells me things are exaggerated and something else was going on. Do your own research. I did with a friend years ago and we concluded that with all the deaths in that time the population would have collapsed. I/we could be wrong but I really don't think so.
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There were no shortages in Russia in the 1980's?
There were. In the '70s the Soviet Union needed to change it's economy. The government did not do it for various reasons.
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Russians all drove Jaguars and Mercedes in the 1980's and not Lada's and Travants?
Wrong person to ask. I don't know what they drove but only idiots drive Jags and Mercs. JMO.
Violence is integral to Russian culture, so the scenes in Marseille are unsurprising. Russia is the last bastion of barbarism in Europe, and there is little hope for that depressing corner of the world. It is a mental asylum, taken over by the lunatics.
You're just a butthurt Brit, the ship sailed long ago and now you lick American boots. Nothing to see here.
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And it's not world championship. ))
Good. Look this article, it was translate to Russian language on Russian news site:
