National identities in former USSR republics (Polish, culture, emigrate, time)
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Meanwhile, a party backed by ethnic Russians remained the single biggest in parliamentarian elections in Latvia this weekend, with 23 percent of the vote, but gained less than in previous elections and will not enter government.
The “Harmony” party, led by the mayor of Riga, could have been even bigger were it not that 280,000 Russian-speakers in the country are “non-citizens” with special passports without voting rights.
Unfortunately, I have never been there. But as I know there is the same situation in these countries, maybe a little worse. There was the civil war in Tajikstan, many people, not only Russians, leaved the country. Turkmenistan is a very closed country with dictatorship like in Uzbekistan too.
Of course, if you don't have citizenship, you can't vote for parliament. Now, fact is, the Baltic nations have been independent for over two decades now, which means that everyone who wanted to get citizenship, is long ago already a citizen. YOU CAN'T SHOVE CITIZENSHIP DOWN PEOPLES THROATS IF THEY DON'T WANT IT. Some people would rather get rid of their arm rather than their Russian citizenship. Again, you can't force citizenship on people. They have the freedom of choice. All countries in Europe except Belgium, Cyprus, Ireland, Italy, Poland, and Sweden have language as one of the requirements for acquiring citizenship, even Russia, so your talk of fascist laws is a pathetic attempt of creating a negative image. Now, if you don't understand why language requirements exist in the first place, you are stupid, nothing more.
Difference is that these people have lived all their life there and hadn't problems with lack of knowledge of the local language. Canada has two offical languages, Switzerland - four, Kyrgyzia - two, as I said. Why Baltic states are different?
But problem isn't about knowledge of the language. If a persons's ancestors lived in Latvia or Estonia before 1940 he has right for citizenship, if not - he hasn't. It's segregation.
With the Russian invasion in 1940s, the Baltics ceased to exist, so de jure Russians born in Estonia during the occupation are citizens of the SU.
No, as far as I know it's not a case - those languages are as difficult for Russians to learn as it is for the Westerners. Baltic languages are not related to Russian at all.
They share common roots in the Balto-Slavic language family. At least Russian has a similar case system, compared to most West European languages, which don't. That, right there, can be a huge stumbling block for people not used to thinking that way, in terms of cases and noun declensions. I understand there's a fair amount of vocabulary that comes from common roots, too, though it may not be immediately obvious. Kind of like how Latin forms the basis for the Romance languages, and even some of English.
Of course, if you don't have citizenship, you can't vote for parliament. Now, fact is, the Baltic nations have been independent for over two decades now, which means that everyone who wanted to get citizenship, is long ago already a citizen. YOU CAN'T SHOVE CITIZENSHIP DOWN PEOPLES THROATS IF THEY DON'T WANT IT. Some people would rather get rid of their arm rather than their Russian citizenship. Again, you can't force citizenship on people. They have the freedom of choice. All countries in Europe except Belgium, Cyprus, Ireland, Italy, Poland, and Sweden have language as one of the requirements for acquiring citizenship, even Russia, so your talk of fascist laws is a pathetic attempt of creating a negative image. Now, if you don't understand why language requirements exist in the first place, you are stupid, nothing more.
In Russia it's necessary to speak Russian because it's only language all people in the country can speak. If you speak only Kyrgyz or Estonian almost nobody can understand you. Russian language connects all people from the different parts of the country. But in Baltic states everyone can speak Russian, so why Russian shouldn't be a second offical language?
One of the democracy's postulates says: All are equal before the law.
But in Baltic states people splitted on "whites" and "colors".
With the Russian invasion in 1940s, the Baltics ceased to exist, so de jure Russians born in Estonia during the occupation are citizens of the SU.
Really? So if I was born in Kyrgyzia before USSR collapsed am I a sitizen of USSR? But why I'm not a sitizen of Kokhand kaghanat? It existed long before USSR. Or maybe I'm a sitizen of Kyrgyz kaghanat which existed almost 1000 years ago?
Common sense says that you a sitizen of the country you was born in if you lived there all your life. I was born in USSR and was the sitizen of Kyrgyz SSR and after USSR collapsed I became a sitizen of Kyrgyz Republic. It's logical. But situation in Baltic states is different. It's discrimination when someone who lived there all his life, hasn't all civil rights and hasn't a citizenship of his country.
In Russia it's necessary to speak Russian because it's only language all people in the country can speak. If you speak only Kyrgyz or Estonian almost nobody can understand you. Russian language connects all people from the different parts of the country. But in Baltic states everyone can speak Russian, so why Russian shouldn't be a second offical language?
One of the democracy's postulates says: All are equal before the law.
But in Baltic states people splitted on "whites" and "colors".
If Russian were the 2nd official language in Estonia, much less people would feel the need to study Estonian at all. This would create a even bigger disparity between the the two communities. Countries which have a small population cannot allow a 2nd official language if they want to protect and conserve their identity and culture. Having Russian as an official language would be a threat to this.
And no, not all people speak Russian in the Baltic's. The generation that got their education not from the Soviet Union anymore barely speaks Russian, instead they speak English, to a lesser extent German and French as well. This trend will continue in the future.
If people really want to enjoy Russian having an official status then there is a big ass country just east of us.
And a side note on the job market: if you want to work in a field that has contact with customers, knowing Russian is quite often mandatory, otherwise you won't get this position. Now imagine this situation in Germany for example or anywhere else for that matter. You can't get a job that is connected with customer service because you can't speak Turkish. Unheard, discrimination. But here in Estonia it's normal. The Russian youth of today, who are fluent in both languages, have an advantage on the job market over the Estonian youth, who don't really speak Russian anymore.
Really? So if I was born in Kyrgyzia before USSR collapsed am I a sitizen of USSR? But why I'm not a sitizen of Kokhand kaghanat? It existed long before USSR. Or maybe I'm a sitizen of Kyrgyz kaghanat which existed almost 1000 years ago?
Common sense says that you a sitizen of the country you was born in if you lived there all your life. I was born in USSR and was the sitizen of Kyrgyz SSR and after USSR collapsed I became a sitizen of Kyrgyz Republic. It's logical. But situation in Baltic states is different. It's discrimination when someone who lived there all his life, hasn't all civil rights and hasn't a citizenship of his country.
Estonia and Baltic's for that matter (maybe even Europe, not so sure about that) are not like the USA, where you get citizenship if you were born there. If none of your parents had Estonian citizenship and you were born during the occupation, then yes, you don't get it handed to you 'just because'.
I can't answer your questions regarding why and why you don't hold Kyrgyzian citizenship, because I'm not aware of the laws in your country.
Estonia and Baltic's for that matter (maybe even Europe, not so sure about that) are not like the USA, where you get citizenship if you were born there. If none of your parents had Estonian citizenship and you were born during the occupation, then yes, you don't get it handed to you 'just because'.
I can't answer your questions regarding why and why you don't hold Kyrgyzian citizenship, because I'm not aware of the laws in your country.
So a baby which ancestors didn't live in Estonia before 1940 can't get estonian citizenship because he is a terrible little occupier?
Can you explain what does it mean "just because"? The law can't work "just because".
So a baby which ancestors didn't live in Estonia before 1940 can't get estonian citizenship because he is a terrible little occupier?
Can you explain what does it mean "just because"? The law can't work "just because".
Of course it can, and no, I did nowhere say a terrible occupier, these are your words.
Estonian citizenship for a minor younger than 15 years of age can be applied for by the child’s:
- parents (or one parent upon an agreement with the other parent or a single parent who is bringing up the child alone) who obtained Estonian citizenship after the birth of the child
- guardian who is an Estonian citizen or a guardianship authority if the parents of the minor are dead, they are missing or have restricted active legal capacity or they have been deprived of their parental rights
- parents (or one parent upon an agreement with the other parent or a single parent who is bringing up the child alone) if they apply for Estonian citizenship simultaneously
- parents (or a single parent who is bringing up the child alone) who are not citizens of any state and who have legally resided in Estonia for at least 5 years.
If Russian were the 2nd official language in Estonia, much less people would feel the need to study Estonian at all. This would create a even bigger disparity between the the two communities. Countries which have a small population cannot allow a 2nd official language if they want to protect and conserve their identity and culture. Having Russian as an official language would be a threat to this.
And no, not all people speak Russian in the Baltic's. The generation that got their education not from the Soviet Union anymore barely speaks Russian, instead they speak English, to a lesser extent German and French as well. This trend will continue in the future.
If people really want to enjoy Russian having an official status then there is a big ass country just east of us.
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Totally agree.
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