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Old 07-23-2015, 12:18 PM
AFP
 
7,412 posts, read 6,904,108 times
Reputation: 6632

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Portugal has two official languages Portuguese and Mirandese the latter is primarily spoken in one municipality Miranda do Douro which was historically quite islolated, the language is estimated to have up to 15,000 speakers with only 5,000 fluent. It is an Astur-Leonese Language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astur-Leonese_languages

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirandese_language

Northern Portugal was part of the Kingdom of Asturias

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asturi...A9rica_910.svg


Mirandese Folk Songs.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lrGo-W8m-E

Last edited by AFP; 07-23-2015 at 01:47 PM..
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Old 07-23-2015, 01:39 PM
 
172 posts, read 177,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
German: in Germany, Switzerland, Austria (I heard it can be quite different). How different is it really from Dutch?
That's a difficult question You can surely study this topic for years.

Here is a nice map of different dialects in the Rhineland:



I was born and grown up in Kleve. My father spoke standard German and Kleverländisch, that's a Dutch dialect. Unfortunately I can't speak Kleverländisch very well. But I can understand it. So it is not so difficult for me to understand Dutch. I now live in Düsseldorf, the dialect here is called Düsseldorfer Platt. As far as I know it's also a Dutch dialect, but it's very different from Kleverländisch. I have often big problems to understand elderly people here in Düsseldorfer when they speak Düsseldorfer Platt.

A few kilometers south of Düsseldorf they speak again a different dialect. Mostly denoted as Kölsch. This is definitely not a Dutch dialect. There are several isoglosses that devide the Rhineland in different dialects. The farther north one goes so much more similar the dialect will be to Dutch.

The whole thing seems very complicated to me. Standard Dutch is originated from Nieder-Fränkisch dialects. Whereas standard German has developed from high German dialects like Mittel-Fränkisch dialects. The isoglosse between low German or Dutch dialects to High German dialects is the Benrather Linie:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benrath_line



Here is an other map with German dialects:





The reason why Dutch and German are today two independent languages is probably that the Netherlands was founded more than 200 years earlier than Germany.

I don't know whether my explanations are correct. It's really complicated.
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Old 07-23-2015, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,821,814 times
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The regional differences are nowadays extremely small in Finland, sadly. During the age of nationalism in the 1800's Finnish, like so many others, standardised their languages, and Finnish was based on the Southwestern dialects. Due to a sparse population and a demographical revolution in the 1960's (rapid urbanisation) has made the dialects fade away, and nowadays most people speak standard Finnish, except from some few dialectic words and accents. The Lapland dialect is still quite strong, but compared to say Italy, the differences from standard Finnish are still small. The Helsinki slang or the Rauma pidgin dialect are usually spoken only by linguistists from those areas. Though I'm a native of Helsinki, I speak and use only a handful of Helsinki slang words.
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Old 07-23-2015, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Polderland
1,071 posts, read 1,260,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlorianD View Post
That's a difficult question You can surely study this topic for years.

Here is a nice map of different dialects in the Rhineland:

I was born and grown up in Kleve. My father spoke standard German and Kleverländisch, that's a Dutch dialect. Unfortunately I can't speak Kleverländisch very well. But I can understand it. So it is not so difficult for me to understand Dutch. I now live in Düsseldorf, the dialect here is called Düsseldorfer Platt. As far as I know it's also a Dutch dialect, but it's very different from Kleverländisch. I have often big problems to understand elderly people here in Düsseldorfer when they speak Düsseldorfer Platt.

A few kilometers south of Düsseldorf they speak again a different dialect. Mostly denoted as Kölsch. This is definitely not a Dutch dialect. There are several isoglosses that devide the Rhineland in different dialects. The farther north one goes so much more similar the dialect will be to Dutch.

The whole thing seems very complicated to me. Standard Dutch is originated from Nieder-Fränkisch dialects. Whereas standard German has developed from high German dialects like Mittel-Fränkisch dialects. The isoglosse between low German or Dutch dialects to High German dialects is the Benrather Linie:


Here is an other map with German dialects:

The reason why Dutch and German are today two independent languages is probably that the Netherlands was founded more than 200 years earlier than Germany.

I don't know whether my explanations are correct. It's really complicated.
Thanks for clarifying some stuff about my own accent, or dialect. It really is complicated with all the different accents and dialects and mingling of Dutch and German. I grew up in Nijmegen and to me we just spoke Nijmeegs. Never knew what the official name for it was.

And to make it even more complicated: there is also variation in accent or dialect between the different classes. Working class "Nijmegenaren" speak with a much stronger accent and different words (dialect) than the middle and upper class.
Is this also the case in Germany?
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Old 07-23-2015, 08:40 PM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,732,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
The regional differences are nowadays extremely small in Finland, sadly. During the age of nationalism in the 1800's Finnish, like so many others, standardised their languages, and Finnish was based on the Southwestern dialects. Due to a sparse population and a demographical revolution in the 1960's (rapid urbanisation) has made the dialects fade away, and nowadays most people speak standard Finnish, except from some few dialectic words and accents. The Lapland dialect is still quite strong, but compared to say Italy, the differences from standard Finnish are still small. The Helsinki slang or the Rauma pidgin dialect are usually spoken only by linguistists from those areas. Though I'm a native of Helsinki, I speak and use only a handful of Helsinki slang words.
speaking of Finnish I recently was shocked to learn it is vastly different from all other European languages to the extent that it has nothing to do with any of them - it does not even belong to the Indo-European language family!
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Old 07-24-2015, 06:47 AM
 
Location: Morgantown, WV
469 posts, read 577,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
speaking of Finnish I recently was shocked to learn it is vastly different from all other European languages to the extent that it has nothing to do with any of them - it does not even belong to the Indo-European language family!
I believe it's distantly related to Hungarian oddly enough, Estonian too. I'm not sure how well these three respective speakers can understand each other though.
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Old 07-24-2015, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Bologna, Italy
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As a native French speaker it is almost easier for me now to recognize some Italian accents than to recognize the French ones aside from obvious ones (Marseille, North-eastern, Parisian, Lyon/Saint-Etienne, etc).

In Italy I can easily tell if someone is from Florence (they are unable to pronounce the hard "c" sound), Napoli (who pronounce "sp" like it was "Shp"), and a few others. Generally, I can tell if someone is from the north or from the south, and sometimes have a more precise idea of the area. Some are weirder than others though (Rome accent for instance is kinda strange)
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Old 07-24-2015, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Rimini, Emilia-Romagna, Italy (44°0 N)
2,672 posts, read 3,186,337 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forgotten username View Post
As a native French speaker it is almost easier for me now to recognize some Italian accents than to recognize the French ones aside from obvious ones (Marseille, North-eastern, Parisian, Lyon/Saint-Etienne, etc).

In Italy I can easily tell if someone is from Florence (they are unable to pronounce the hard "c" sound), Napoli (who pronounce "sp" like it was "Shp"), and a few others. Generally, I can tell if someone is from the north or from the south, and sometimes have a more precise idea of the area. Some are weirder than others though (Rome accent for instance is kinda strange)
And what about bolognese/emilian accent?
What do you think and how do you recognize it?
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Old 07-24-2015, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Bologna, Italy
7,501 posts, read 6,296,223 times
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Bolognese is pretty normal accent to me, but it varies between people who were born there (like the old women in the neighbourhood) and younger people. The old people have it stronger for sure, but I like it. There is a local radio that I listen to a lot of the time which is pretty funny because they all have super strong bolognese accents and sometimes there are commercials in dialect (for things such as hearing problem solutions or a shop that sell prosciutto... not our age range indeed). Generally "Pizza" here sounds like "Pisza" but it's hard because i can't really say "zz" but more like "dz" because I'm French.

It varies a lot, generally I'd say the accents from Cremona to Forli / cesena (I don't know anyone from Rimini) are pretty standard for me, even though there is no such thing as standard italian.

I really like accents from Umbria / Marche / Abruzzo too, they have a singing quality to them but remain completely clear and understable for me, which I can not say for deep southern accents.

Torinese sounds very french to me.... Milanese I'm not sure. Sounds slow.
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Old 07-24-2015, 09:20 AM
 
Location: near Turin (Italy)
1,373 posts, read 1,444,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forgotten username View Post

Torinese sounds very french to me.... Milanese I'm not sure. Sounds slow.
also the french people end their sentences with "neh"?
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