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I'm not talking about anything....you are the one telling this person to hit the supplements and protein shakes for 6 miles of running a week and some light weight work.
Where did you get the "light" weight work from? YOU are the only one who's said that, not Deez Nuttz.
There is absolutely no reason he shouldn't take a protein shake, especially with any weight training involved.
Quote:
Can you provide some evidence that supplements are effective for this person following this particular workout regime?
The benefits of protein shakes has been well known and documented for years. Here is a good start for you.
Heck, you haven't even really mentioned WHAT supplements you recommend! What, ALL of them are good for you? Jeez....
The OP asked about protein, so that's what I gave advice on. What other supplements would be good for him? Well, any of the following would give him some benefits.
As long as you're eating well via a diet that includes lean meats, dairy products, whole grains, and also legumes, and are not performing high impact workouts in which you exercise to total exhaustion 4-5 times a week, protein shakes are not necessary. Oh, you can go down to your local health nut store and spend about $30 on a tub of whey protein and use it in a smoothie to drink for a post-workout recovery fuel once in awhile, but according to the level of your workouts that you stated, which I would classify as moderate, I doubt you're gonna see any benefits from them. Indeed, a recent study that was published in JAMA found that people who simply drank chocolate milk after a hard workout reaped pretty much the same benefits as did those who consumed a whey protein-enhanced smoothie!
Supplements? As a personal trainer, one of the biggest if not THE biggest misconception I hear daily from gym rats isin regardsto Creatine. Many people think that if they simply take it daily before a workout and then lift weights they're gonna get bigger. Creatine doesn't work that way. It merely acts as a reserve fuel supply for your muscles; allowing them to pick-up an extra jolt of ATP (adenosine tri-phosphate) IF--and only IF they are worked to complete exhaustion. That is, the Creatine enable you to get in those lost couple of reps your muscles might not otherwise be able to do. And that's how it helpe someone get bigger: by enabling them to do a bit more work.
You're gonna hear alot of people on this forum tout protein shakes and Creatine, but I guarantee you that most of them, with the exception of the two or three elite athletes I've encountered here, would not notice the difference if they stopped using them--providing they were eating well and taking a good multi-vitamin. See, that stuff is like a reserve fuel tank on a race car: if you don't completely exhaust the fuel in your main tank, it does you no good.
As long as you're eating well via a diet that includes lean meats, dairy products, whole grains, and also legumes, and are not performing high impact workouts in which you exercise to total exhaustion 4-5 times a week, protein shakes are not necessary. Oh, you can go down to your local health nut store and spend about $30 on a tub of whey protein and use it in a smoothie to drink for a post-workout recovery fuel once in awhile, but according to the level of your workouts that you stated, which I would classify as moderate, I doubt you're gonna see any benefits from them. Indeed, a recent study that was published in JAMA found that people who simply drank chocolate milk after a hard workout reaped pretty much the same benefits as did those who consumed a whey protein-enhanced smoothie!
That's because most chocolate milk contains between 8 and 10 grams of protein. For comparison, my EAS whey protein provides 23 grams per serving.
Quote:
Supplements? As a personal trainer, one of the biggest if not THE biggest misconception I hear daily from gym rats isin regardsto Creatine. Many people think that if they simply take it daily before a workout and then lift weights they're gonna get bigger. Creatine doesn't work that way. It merely acts as a reserve fuel supply for your muscles; allowing them to pick-up an extra jolt of ATP (adenosine tri-phosphate) IF--and only IF they are worked to complete exhaustion. That is, the Creatine enable you to get in those lost couple of reps your muscles might not otherwise be able to do. And that's how it helpe someone get bigger: by enabling them to do a bit more work.
If your body doesn't need the extra protein, you'll get rid of it through your urine or feces.
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Originally Posted by broadbill
I would recommend not taking either supplements or protein shakes at all in your situation. You sound like you have a healthy, balanced diet and that is enough.
Thanks for the tips.....what types of vitamins do you recommend I take? I do have some Equate Complete Multivitamins A thru Z which is basically the Wal Mart version of Centrum. Would taking one of these once a day be sufficient? Or is there another kind I should be using?
I do have to ask what are legumes? I've heard of them a time or two here on the board but have never had them.
Drummerboy, what can you tell me about Glutamine, L-Carnitine and Nitric Oxide? Are these also the same as the "reserve fuel for muslces" Creatines?
Thanks for the tips.....what types of vitamins do you recommend I take? I do have some Equate Complete Multivitamins A thru Z which is basically the Wal Mart version of Centrum. Would taking one of these once a day be sufficient? Or is there another kind I should be using?
That one is alright, but this one is better, and probably cheaper too.
Drummerboy, what can you tell me about Glutamine, L-Carnitine and Nitric Oxide? Are these also the same as the "reserve fuel for muslces" Creatines?
L-Glutamine - An amino acid that basically helps muscle recovery by preventing their breakdown during workouts. Most decent protein powders have this already but some choose to add additional amounts. I've found that it does help my recovery a little bit, but not a huge amount. Take at your discretion depending on the amount in your protein powder.
L-Carnitine - Helps increase metabolism.
Nitric Oxide - Helps increase blood flow to the muscles.
Here are a couple links that explain it in better detail.
With the L-Glutamine and L-Carnitine, you can pretty much shop around and find the best bargains, but with the Nitric Oxide I would go straight for NO-Xplode. I've tried enough NO2 products over the past 5 years or so and NO-Xplode is by far my favorite.
If you're talking about that overpriced powdered crap in the big cans, that you see the mental midgets at the gym mixing up as part of their workouts......fahgeddaboudit!!!!
You'd do far better going to your town's nonprofit Natural Foods Co-op, and getting the experts there to outline a supplements regimen for you. Until you get really, really, into lifting, I'd imagine all you need is a good multivitamin, plus an array of antioxidants (maybe Beta Carotene, E, C, and Bioflavonoids). Bodybuilding is a tearing-down-muscle/rebuilding-with-bigger-muscle cycle, and the antioxidants are a crucial part of that cycle....helping your body deal with the Free Radicals, etc, generated by the breakdown of the muscle. And I will stress that the most complete and effective array of those antioxidants is to be found in plant foods.
After your exercise regimen becomes advanced, you can debate the value of Creatine, Chromium Picolinate , Coenzyme Q-10, D3, Ribose, Alpha Lipoic Acid, L-Arginine, L-Glutamine..... But before you do that...as in RIGHT NOW... go to whfoods.com, look up the 'World's 100 Healthiest Foods', and start studying nutrition from a foods standpoint. A lemon, pureed whole (seeds, peel, & all) in the Mini-Prep, probably has more benefit for you than what you'll find in a 'Protein Shake'. At our house, we drink our daily lemons with Seltzer (or stir them into our bowls of Borscht).
But here's an easy daily minimum plantfoods checklist I give my envious friends, who wish they had my body: a whole Lemon; a whole Apple, a raw Carrot, a stick of Celery, a Crucifer (Broccoli, etc.); a dark leafy green; a Grapefruit (peeled and eaten like an orange), a handful of raw Almonds (good fats), an Avocado (good fats), one Banana (potassium); something red or blue (berries, Watermelon...even a raw Beet)...assuming you're not allergic to any of this... We eat more than this, of course...Buckwheat, Barley Flakes, New Potatoes....enough Olive Oil to float a boat..... but the above list addresses the plant chemical areas that frequently get missed.
Most of the hotsy-totsy, 'high-powered' supplements and shakes, in the fancy-schmantzy cans are from seriously shady enterprises. Read the labels, and you'll see bad things (and those are only the DECLARED bad things...) Anything ending in 'ose' (sucrose, maltose, fructose...) is a sugar. Sugar is poison...counterproductive. Sugar will put fat on you faster than fats will put fat on you. And it will clog up your arteries with cholesterol. Artificial sweeteners are bad for you, too, as is MSG (which will be disguised as 'Spices', or 'Natural Flavors'...you should learn all the code names for MSG).
I imagine you're getting more than enough Protein in your diet, as it is. And it isn't Protein that makes those muscle monsters so gorgeous. IT'S STEROIDS (or freakishly-high natural levels of testosterone, combined with a naturally-muscular build).....but usually, IT'S STEROIDS (and 'roids are unhealthy...mostly because if you get busted, you'll end up getting AIDS from being gang-raped in prison. DO NOT DO STEROIDS!). So, unless the 'Shakes' and 'Supplements' contain "undeclared pharmaceuticals" (and there have been allegations...), they're going to do nothing for you that a handful of vitamins and a gallon of ice cream won't do. .........except, those vitamins and ice cream would probably come from reputable sources that monitored the content of their product. Believe me: the whole 'Protein Shake' thing is just a cover for THE STEROIDS the 'connected' guys are doing (ok, and a way for fitness professionals to make a buck off the Rubes...). (Oh, and I'm not recommending Ice Cream by the gallon. It'll just make your muscles puffy, by building fat cells, which you'll never be able to lose.)
My DH regrets not doing 'roids' while they were legal (and I know he never has used them, because he never developed BTs, an' da tanks ain't done shrank), but he still has managed to progress to the point where, at 44, he has a 14" drop from jacket size to trouser waist. We've been studying nutrition since we met in Weightlifting 101, as seventeen-year-olds...and so he's never been tempted by those pricey snake oil milkshakes. What I'm saying is that good basic nutrition....and it sounds like you're pretty-much there, already...is all you really need.
It's midnight, and I'm typing away, doing my cardio hour on the Stairmaster in my wardrobe. When you're doing an hour of cardio, and an hour of lifting...every day...like we do... You'll need the (reputable and American-made) supplements and acutely-managed diet that we have. But you've got plenty of time to become an expert, before you have to cross that bridge.
If you're talking about that overpriced powdered crap in the big cans, that you see the mental midgets at the gym mixing up as part of their workouts......fahgeddaboudit!!!!
You'd do far better going to your town's nonprofit Natural Foods Co-op, and getting the experts there to outline a supplements regimen for you. Until you get really, really, into lifting, I'd imagine all you need is a good multivitamin, plus an array of antioxidants (maybe Beta Carotene, E, C, and Bioflavonoids). Bodybuilding is a tearing-down-muscle/rebuilding-with-bigger-muscle cycle, and the antioxidants are a crucial part of that cycle....helping your body deal with the Free Radicals, etc, generated by the breakdown of the muscle. And I will stress that the most complete and effective array of those antioxidants is to be found in plant foods.
After your exercise regimen becomes advanced, you can debate the value of Creatine, Chromium Picolinate , Coenzyme Q-10, D3, Ribose, Alpha Lipoic Acid, L-Arginine, L-Glutamine..... But before you do that...as in RIGHT NOW... go to whfoods.com, look up the 'World's 100 Healthiest Foods', and start studying nutrition from a foods standpoint. A lemon, pureed whole (seeds, peel, & all) in the Mini-Prep, probably has more benefit for you than what you'll find in a 'Protein Shake'. At our house, we drink our daily lemons with Seltzer (or stir them into our bowls of Borscht).
But here's an easy daily minimum plantfoods checklist I give my envious friends, who wish they had my body: a whole Lemon; a whole Apple, a raw Carrot, a stick of Celery, a Crucifer (Broccoli, etc.); a dark leafy green; a Grapefruit (peeled and eaten like an orange), a handful of raw Almonds (good fats), an Avocado (good fats), one Banana (potassium); something red or blue (berries, Watermelon...even a raw Beet)...assuming you're not allergic to any of this... We eat more than this, of course...Buckwheat, Barley Flakes, New Potatoes....enough Olive Oil to float a boat..... but the above list addresses the plant chemical areas that frequently get missed.
Most of the hotsy-totsy, 'high-powered' supplements and shakes, in the fancy-schmantzy cans are from seriously shady enterprises. Read the labels, and you'll see bad things (and those are only the DECLARED bad things...) Anything ending in 'ose' (sucrose, maltose, fructose...) is a sugar. Sugar is poison...counterproductive. Sugar will put fat on you faster than fats will put fat on you. And it will clog up your arteries with cholesterol. Artificial sweeteners are bad for you, too, as is MSG (which will be disguised as 'Spices', or 'Natural Flavors'...you should learn all the code names for MSG).
I imagine you're getting more than enough Protein in your diet, as it is. And it isn't Protein that makes those muscle monsters so gorgeous. IT'S STEROIDS (or freakishly-high natural levels of testosterone, combined with a naturally-muscular build).....but usually, IT'S STEROIDS (and 'roids are unhealthy...mostly because if you get busted, you'll end up getting AIDS from being gang-raped in prison. DO NOT DO STEROIDS!). So, unless the 'Shakes' and 'Supplements' contain "undeclared pharmaceuticals" (and there have been allegations...), they're going to do nothing for you that a handful of vitamins and a gallon of ice cream won't do. .........except, those vitamins and ice cream would probably come from reputable sources that monitored the content of their product. Believe me: the whole 'Protein Shake' thing is just a cover for THE STEROIDS the 'connected' guys are doing (ok, and a way for fitness professionals to make a buck off the Rubes...). (Oh, and I'm not recommending Ice Cream by the gallon. It'll just make your muscles puffy, by building fat cells, which you'll never be able to lose.)
My DH regrets not doing 'roids' while they were legal (and I know he never has used them, because he never developed BTs, an' da tanks ain't done shrank), but he still has managed to progress to the point where, at 44, he has a 14" drop from jacket size to trouser waist. We've been studying nutrition since we met in Weightlifting 101, as seventeen-year-olds...and so he's never been tempted by those pricey snake oil milkshakes. What I'm saying is that good basic nutrition....and it sounds like you're pretty-much there, already...is all you really need.
It's midnight, and I'm typing away, doing my cardio hour on the Stairmaster in my wardrobe. When you're doing an hour of cardio, and an hour of lifting...every day...like we do... You'll need the (reputable and American-made) supplements and acutely-managed diet that we have. But you've got plenty of time to become an expert, before you have to cross that bridge.
Good luck kid!
I'm literally laughing my ass off. Thanks, I needed that before I went to bed.
I didn't even know where in this post I should start telling you how incredibly wrong you were. I figured calling those who use protein "mental midgets" would be a good start as I could point out the doctor, engineer and assistant city planner that attend my gym and all use protein shakes regularly, but when I got to the part about protein shakes being a front for some massive steroid abuse, I realized it would be pointless. People like you are oblivious to facts and logic. You simply exist in a whole different dimension.
I suggest you tighten your tinfoil hat and be on your merry way. If you haven't already, you should check out the 9/11 Troofer movement. They love your kind over there.
Where did you get the "light" weight work from? YOU are the only one who's said that, not Deez Nuttz.
There is absolutely no reason he shouldn't take a protein shake, especially with any weight training involved.
That's right, he didn't say...but I'm assuming that if he's "just getting into weight lifting" (his words in his OP) then would be light weight work...right? Again, if his diet is healthy and balanced there is no reason to take extra protein, at his level of weight training. Its a waste of money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David
The benefits of protein shakes has been well known and documented for years. Here is a good start for you.
I'm not disputing what protein shakes are for. What I'm disputing is the blanket recommendation that you need to take a protein shake, regardless of activity level. It reminds me of the folks that trot on a treadmill for 15 minutes and drain a 36 ounce gatorade...they end up taking in more calories than they burned!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David
The OP asked about protein, so that's what I gave advice on. What other supplements would be good for him? Well, any of the following would give him some benefits.
Not at all. I've just been around this stuff long enough (and wasted enough money on crap products) to know a little something about it.
The literature I've read on those supplement show little to no effect on endurance athlete performance (the field I'm most familiar with). I doubt they are any more effective for weight-lifting, but I could be wrong. I'm also no amateur to these products either.
The only exception of creatine for weight-lifting I'd be surprised that anyone would recommend it for light weight-lifting.
That's right, he didn't say...but I'm assuming that if he's "just getting into weight lifting" (his words in his OP) then would be light weight work...right? Again, if his diet is healthy and balanced there is no reason to take extra protein, at his level of weight training. Its a waste of money.
Let's not forget that the protein shakes usually replace a couple of the meals you should be eating during the day if you're eating 6-8, which he should be.
As far as money, the protein I take is $30 for a 5lb bag at Sam's Club. It's actually cheaper than the lunchmeat I'd need over a comparable time.
Quote:
I'm not disputing what protein shakes are for. What I'm disputing is the blanket recommendation that you need to take a protein shake, regardless of activity level.
I think this is part of the confusion. I'm not saying it's absolutely necessary that he take the protein shakes, but it would be an added benefit for him.
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For comparison, my EAS whey protein provides 23 grams per serving. 
