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simetime, I know nothing I write is going to change your mind. You are convinced that GZ hunted down and killed TM despite the evidence and testimony that, in my opinion, clearly makes that scenario ridiculous. If GZ had gotten out of his truck with the idea of catching and killing TM, I would have expected him to have his gun at the ready and not waited for TM to first kick the snot out of him. If you choose to think that GZ is a criminal mastermind murderer who planned this all out and who was willing to get beaten up to set up his alibi, well, ok, that's your opinion. I think TM did nothing wrong until he confronted GZ. I don't think he was being heroic by not leading a "rapist" to his door--another desperate manufactured excuse for TM's not just going home--I think he decided to be a tough guy and it was the ultimate miscalculation. You can make up all kinds of other possibilities and talk about lies and profiling but none of it holds any water when you watched the trial and you had no pre-conceived ideas or agendas that you want to continue.
simetime, I know nothing I write is going to change your mind. You are convinced that GZ hunted down and killed TM despite the evidence and testimony that, in my opinion, clearly makes that scenario ridiculous. If GZ had gotten out of his truck with the idea of catching and killing TM, I would have expected him to have his gun at the ready and not waited for TM to first kick the snot out of him. If you choose to think that GZ is a criminal mastermind murderer who planned this all out and who was willing to get beaten up to set up his alibi, well, ok, that's your opinion. I think TM did nothing wrong until he confronted GZ. I don't think he was being heroic by not leading a "rapist" to his door--another desperate manufactured excuse for TM's not just going home--I think he decided to be a tough guy and it was the ultimate miscalculation. You can make up all kinds of other possibilities and talk about lies and profiling but none of it holds any water when you watched the trial and you had no pre-conceived ideas or agendas that you want to continue.
You are reading too much into what I wrote. I don't believe that zimmerman is a racist, but I do believe that he planned for something like this to happen. You were also looking at an half ass and weak attempt to convict him of something that did not apply (murder 2). If the state really wanted to convict him they would have pulled out all of the stops to do so. The witnesses were not prepared and the evidence at most was shoody. Zimmerman creditabilty was in question ever since day one and his stories did not add up.
So in your mind you honestly feel that Trayvon went after a complete stranger in the dark just for following him? You can't possibly conceive any reason for him to do it? I don't think that it would be hard for him to provoke most teenagers or adult men by calling them certain names and or possibly threatening them.
The trial is over and already one of the jurors is trying to profit from it, racism is alive and well judging from the various racist remarks made online and through the media
You are reading too much into what I wrote. I don't believe that zimmerman is a racist, but I do believe that he planned for something like this to happen. You were also looking at an half ass and weak attempt to convict him of something that did not apply (murder 2). If the state really wanted to convict him they would have pulled out all of the stops to do so. The witnesses were not prepared and the evidence at most was shoody. Zimmerman creditabilty was in question ever since day one and his stories did not add up.
So in your mind you honestly feel that Trayvon went after a complete stranger in the dark just for following him? You can't possibly conceive any reason for him to do it? I don't think that it would be hard for him to provoke most teenagers or adult men by calling them certain names and or possibly threatening them.
The trial is over and already one of the jurors is trying to profit from it, racism is alive and well judging from the various racist remarks made online and through the media
You are right, racism is alive and well and it exists on all sides among some people but not all people. TM might have been one of those but GZ was not according to the FBI. You say he planned for something like this to happen? Something like what? To catch a "thief" in the neighborhood? If that was true, and there is NO evidence of it beyond the fantasies of those who can't accept the jury's view, he would have had his gun ready. That is illegal, by the way, but you can't possibly think it more believable that he would go after someone in the darkness without the gun in his hand than you do that he walked around and looked around for TM's location (after being asked for the info by the operator twice) in an effort to give the PD the best information he could. BTW, that would be the same PD that he knew would be there in a few minutes looking for both of them. Sorry, but common sense tells me that only one of those scenarios makes sense. Or, maybe you meant that he planned something like first following someone, provoking them into beating him up, and then once he had sufficient injuries and yelling repeatedly for help, THEN he would pull out his gun and shoot one time. One shot. That doesn't sound like much of a plan, really.
Some say that GZ lied about what happened. I'm aware of one discrepancy regarding where TM came from. GZ once mentioned that TM came out of bushes when he approached, challenged, and sucker punched him. It is argued that there are no bushes nearby so his whole story must be a lie. In my view, that is an example of GZ's brain trying to make sense of how TM came out of nowhere, which is to say out of the darkness. Out of the darkness is completely understandable and I see no evidence of a lie because the evidence does show that TM beat GZ. Why would TM attack GZ? I doubt that it was because he felt threatened...that makes no sense...but that is what some people argue. If I felt threatened, I wouldn't confront, I'd go home. So would anyone with half a brain. Use your common sense. I know from what I've seen that TM was no stranger to fighting and no stranger to trouble. No one in the TM camp wants to talk about it but it is right there for anyone to see. Does that mean he started the fight? Well, it tends to show that he might have been inclined to be confrontational that night, especially with a person he could tell was much smaller. Can I conceive of other possibilities? Sure, but nearly all of the accounts, witnesses, evidence, etc. show that TM was beating GZ, GZ had a reasonable fear of being severly injured, and he was legally justified to defend himself with the gun. That is all this case is about. It is not about racism. It's not about how fast a black kid should walk at night. It's not about how a kid can't go to the store at night for skittles and tea. It's not even about whether someone is right or wrong to get out of their vehicle to see which way someone was walking. All of those things are misdirections for the agenda-types because they lose if they discuss what this was really about. No matter what your age, no matter what you were doing earlier, if you punch someone who is smaller than you, get them on the ground, continue to punch and beat them as you sit on their chest (especially with their head against a hard surface), you have created a "disparity of force". In Florida, that means your victim is justified in using deadly force to defend himself. That is the only thing this trial was about and the jury got it right. It is still tragic but it is justice. The lesson here is not that neighborhood watch people have no business legally carrying a gun--check your constitution. The lesson is that people shouldn't try to beat up other people because sometimes the person being beaten might just surprise you and be more capable of defending themselves than you expect.
You are right, racism is alive and well and it exists on all sides among some people but not all people. TM might have been one of those but GZ was not according to the FBI. You say he planned for something like this to happen? Something like what? To catch a "thief" in the neighborhood? If that was true, and there is NO evidence of it beyond the fantasies of those who can't accept the jury's view, he would have had his gun ready. That is illegal, by the way, but you can't possibly think it more believable that he would go after someone in the darkness without the gun in his hand than you do that he walked around and looked around for TM's location (after being asked for the info by the operator twice) in an effort to give the PD the best information he could. BTW, that would be the same PD that he knew would be there in a few minutes looking for both of them. Sorry, but common sense tells me that only one of those scenarios makes sense. Or, maybe you meant that he planned something like first following someone, provoking them into beating him up, and then once he had sufficient injuries and yelling repeatedly for help, THEN he would pull out his gun and shoot one time. One shot. That doesn't sound like much of a plan, really.
Some say that GZ lied about what happened. I'm aware of one discrepancy regarding where TM came from. GZ once mentioned that TM came out of bushes when he approached, challenged, and sucker punched him. It is argued that there are no bushes nearby so his whole story must be a lie. In my view, that is an example of GZ's brain trying to make sense of how TM came out of nowhere, which is to say out of the darkness. Out of the darkness is completely understandable and I see no evidence of a lie because the evidence does show that TM beat GZ. Why would TM attack GZ? I doubt that it was because he felt threatened...that makes no sense...but that is what some people argue. If I felt threatened, I wouldn't confront, I'd go home. So would anyone with half a brain. Use your common sense. I know from what I've seen that TM was no stranger to fighting and no stranger to trouble. No one in the TM camp wants to talk about it but it is right there for anyone to see. Does that mean he started the fight? Well, it tends to show that he might have been inclined to be confrontational that night, especially with a person he could tell was much smaller. Can I conceive of other possibilities? Sure, but nearly all of the accounts, witnesses, evidence, etc. show that TM was beating GZ, GZ had a reasonable fear of being severly injured, and he was legally justified to defend himself with the gun. That is all this case is about. It is not about racism. It's not about how fast a black kid should walk at night. It's not about how a kid can't go to the store at night for skittles and tea. It's not even about whether someone is right or wrong to get out of their vehicle to see which way someone was walking. All of those things are misdirections for the agenda-types because they lose if they discuss what this was really about. No matter what your age, no matter what you were doing earlier, if you punch someone who is smaller than you, get them on the ground, continue to punch and beat them as you sit on their chest (especially with their head against a hard surface), you have created a "disparity of force". In Florida, that means your victim is justified in using deadly force to defend himself. That is the only thing this trial was about and the jury got it right. It is still tragic but it is justice. The lesson here is not that neighborhood watch people have no business legally carrying a gun--check your constitution. The lesson is that people shouldn't try to beat up other people because sometimes the person being beaten might just surprise you and be more capable of defending themselves than you expect.
I'll take a 40 pound advantage over a 3 inch. Half his size? Oh yeah you are not biased at all.
I'll take a 40 pound advantage over a 3 inch. Half his size? Oh yeah you are not biased at all.
I'm biased?! That's a laugh. Where did I say "half his size"? Your bias can't even permit you to read accurately. In fact, nothing I've written is inaccurate. Feel free to quote me on any point I've made that is wrong...not contrary to your opinion....wrong.
And BTW, if the weight difference was so much of an advantage, how do you account for the disparity of injuries, aside from the gunshot? I don't recall what they both weighed at the time but obviously TM was taller and not intimidated by the size difference or do you have some PROOF that disputes the evidence?
I said in another thread that I'm looking for someone to tell me exactly which law Zimmerman broke. Please, I'm looking for just one.
1. Was it illegal for Zimmerman to follow Trayvon? No
2. Was it illegal for Zimmerman to continue following TM even after the police dispatcher recommended he stop? No
3. Was it illegal for Zimmerman to think a young kid walking around at night who met the description of people commiting a rash of burglaries in the area? No
4. Was it illegal for Zimmerman to carry a gun? No
5. Was the Stand Your Gun part of the law used by Zimmerman's attorneys....just once? No---anyone who's read this law knows it was not applicable in this case.....which is why his attorneys didn't use it.
6. Was it illegal for Zimmerman to shoot Trayvon? No....Zimmerman faced great bodily harm inflicted by Trayvon....any reasonable person would have shot their gun under those circumstances.
Trayvon exercised poor judgment.....unfortunately it caused him to lose his life.
I said in another thread that I'm looking for someone to tell me exactly which law Zimmerman broke. Please, I'm looking for just one.
1. Was it illegal for Zimmerman to follow Trayvon? No
2. Was it illegal for Zimmerman to continue following TM even after the police dispatcher recommended he stop? No
3. Was it illegal for Zimmerman to think a young kid walking around at night who met the description of people commiting a rash of burglaries in the area? No
4. Was it illegal for Zimmerman to carry a gun? No
5. Was the Stand Your Gun part of the law used by Zimmerman's attorneys....just once? No---anyone who's read this law knows it was not applicable in this case.....which is why his attorneys didn't use it.
6. Was it illegal for Zimmerman to shoot Trayvon? No....Zimmerman faced great bodily harm inflicted by Trayvon....any reasonable person would have shot their gun under those circumstances.
Trayvon exercised poor judgment.....unfortunately it caused him to lose his life.
TM left the store at 6:24pm & GZ called police at 7:09pm. That is a full 45 minutes & it only takes 9 minutes to walk from 7-11 to where GZ first spotted him walking in yards next to houses & stareing at them. It only takes 12 minutes to walk from 7-11 to his dad's GF house. TM spent 36 minutes scoping out houses instead of walking home. Anyone doing that is suspect. Police found a slim jim bugular tool in bush where TM hid.
Trayvon Martin likely knew more about Stand Your Ground law than George Zimmerman. TM's parents have been going after SYG law even though it had nothing to do with TM's death. TM often wore his Cory Craig Johnson button as he did the night he was killed. Cory Craig Johnson's death is why the Martin family have such a keen interest in defeating the “Stand-Your-Ground” law. JOHNSON v. STATE No. 82-369.
As a neighborhood watch person, Zimmerman was doing his job. Martin looked suspicious, so he followed him. Given some of the facts about Martin that have come out after the incident (prior burglary and assault), Zimmerman had every reason to be suspicious of Martin. Frankly, this country needs millions of more people like Zimmerman who stand up to the criminals.
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