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"A drop in driver's license applications from out-of-state residents certainly suggests they've cooled to the Sunshine State's charms. The number of applications from outsiders has tumbled 30 percent during the past five years - dropping from more than 585,000 in 2003 to about 410,000 in 2008, according to an analysis by The Associated Press.
New Yorkers have snubbed Florida in the largest numbers, with 34,000 fewer applicants coming from what has long been Florida's No. 1 feeder state. That's a decline of almost 50 percent. The next biggest drop came from New Jersey, with 11,000 fewer applicants."
I'd imagine that that's the case for most or just about every state in the union. The fact is, there's a real estate and credit crisis going on, the country has been in a severe recession for two years. People aren't moving ANYWHERE for the most part so there will be decline in out-of-state DL applications in just about every state.
actually you would be wrong. Texas, Tennessee, North Carolina and Georgia has still been seeing large immigrations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7
I have been trying to argue this all along. People are incredibly IMMOBILE right now. Many people are stuck, both in and out of Florida. People wanting in can't sell their homes, and people wanting out can't sell their homes. Plus, it's not as if there are many hot markets for jobs right now, ANYWHERE.
Plus, during the boom years (past five years into the last two of drops), Florida became less affordable for many people, and thus a less attractive retirement or relocation spot. Taxes went up with home values, and it was right then that the insurance rates were the highest immediately after the hurricanes in 2004.
Florida needs sustainable growth, not breakneck growth. A slowdown is welcome.
This is completely wrong. Florida is losing American immigration. Immigrants from other countries is the only reason population lose hasnt happened. If more Americans are leaving florida than moving in then obviously people are moving to some other state(s) do a search of the forum. A article was posted not even three months ago which showed which states are seeing large immigration movements. People are losing jobs and naturally they will go where either A. they have family or B. can find jobs. even during the great depression people moved around.
"Texas, Tennessee, North Carolina and Georgia has still been seeing large immigrations."
^^^ yes, Texas is actually still going pretty strong. I know this from work stuff... (I'm in RE Development). And of course, NC is still growing. Tons of Floridians/half-backs still moving up there too, so naturally NC will grow because people sure as hell arent moving out like they do here in FL.
I can definitely see in the next 20-25 yrs how Florida's demographics are gonna be at this rate.
This is completely wrong. Florida is losing American immigration. Immigrants from other countries is the only reason population lose hasnt happened.
If more Americans are leaving florida than moving in then obviously people are moving to some other state(s) do a search of the forum. A article was posted not even three months ago which showed which states are seeing large immigration movements. People are losing jobs and naturally they will go where either A. they have family or B. can find jobs. even during the great depression people moved around.
First of all, your "analysis" presupposes a LOT of things. You presuppose that 1) everyone who leaves Florida is an "American" who didn't first come here from another country before moving out into "greater America," 2) you presuppose that the people who are moving out are the kinds who have had long ties to Florida in the form of homes they had to sell, etc., and 3) that foreign immigration necessarily means dirt poor guatemalans or illegal Haitians washing up on shore, or that anything "Latin American" must necessarily be poor, uneducated, and unskilled.
Florida shed a LOT of construction and real estate related jobs. Any person with half a brain can expect that once those jobs dry up, many of the people who influxed IN during the boom to chase those jobs are going to LEAVE. Indeed, the one good thing about the "bust" in Florida is that people who HAD to "look elsewhere" because they were priced out of Florida will have an opportunity to get cheaper housing and living. EVERYTHING is down --- from home prices, to taxes, to home insurance rates. It's cheaper now than it was 4 years ago in all those measures.
Do a search on this forum and find how many people, in general, are STUCK across the country... how many posters come to this forum and say, "we want to move to Florida but have to sell our home in _____ first?" People who can pack up and leave to follow "jobs" or move in with family or whatever typically didn't and don't have homes to sell.
Oh, and if people are moving to North Carolina still, it sure as heck aint because of all the JOB opportunities, as North Carolina has an even greater unemployment rate than Florida. There's only one thing worse right now than having an economy based on tourism and agriculture right now, and that's having an economy based on banking and finance.
But again, in the end, does it matter? As mentioned time and again, New York State and most of the Northeast has been "losing" "Americans" for years and years and years now.... even DURING the real estate and construction boom era..... New York, for example, continues to grow only because of IMMIGRATION FROM ABROAD.
actually you would be wrong. Texas, Tennessee, North Carolina and Georgia has still been seeing large immigrations.
Actually, YOU would be wrong. You listed 4 states out of 50 so where in my statement was I wrong?
Also according to the US census bureau all of those states have also seen significant slow down in immigration and development.
Let's just look at North Carolina, which never experienced a housing boom even during the boom years. FAIR ranked NC 8th(right up there with the border states and FL) in the U.S. for illegal immigration. The Pew Hispanic Center ranked NC 9th among states with the highest illegal alien populations in the U.S. and both of these estimates were from 2005.
According to the US census between 1990 and 2000 foreign-born(not necessarily illegal) immigration in NC increased by 273%, the largest increase in all 50 states. The largest group by FAR immigrating from Mexico. Maybe they should move that "South of the Border" tourist trap/rest stop from the NC/SC state line to the VA/NC state line.
Sure NC gets some halfbackers from Florida, too bad the majority of those are age 55+. NC is also a state most threatened by sprawl per the American Planning Association. So if you really want growth in NC, you better be prepared for the Atlanta way of concentric zone theory and urban planning... and traffic.
As TriMT7 already mentioned, NC(8.7) has the 8th highest unemployment rate in the country and SC(9.5) has the 3rd highest per the US Bureau of Labor Statistics. Charlotte already lost Wachovia to Wells Fargo and will likely be transferring jobs and operations out west and slashing Charlotte positions. Now they better hope Bank of America doesn't go under(stocks down 90% and combined BOA/ML net loss of over $17 billion in the 4th Qtr alone, seeking more bailout money, CEO recently subpoenaed in NY,...) or Charlotte might just become the next Hartford.
But I guess it's all ice cream, rainbows and unicorns in the Carolinas...
actually you would be wrong. Texas, Tennessee, North Carolina and Georgia has still been seeing large immigrations.
That's the truth, You can't drive 10 miles here without seeing a Florida license plate. It's really sad too because our job market is dead and has been since everyone decided Tennessee was THE place to relocate too...
That said, My wife wants to relocate to Florida after she graduates from Nursing School, I'm trying my damndest to talk her out of it..
Great posts, TriMT7 and DC2Tampa. I have no idea why people think the Carolinas are some kind of utopias, they most certainly are not. And they are ahead of Florida in unemployment. Here are the state rankings as of Dec. 2008: I apologize if it was already posted somewhere:
My feeling is they experienced a mini-surge of people leaving Florida after the 2004 hurricanes. DH and I at that time purchased a 2nd home in Asheville, thinking we would have a place if Florida went underwater or something - lol.
Anyway, we realized we would never move there, as lovely as it is - there is NO employment in Western NC, it is for retirees and vacationers only - and there are massive problems - no infrastructure for growth, lack of zoning, water problems (yes, areas in NC are actually WORSE off than Florida for lack of potable water!) and other issues. I think the only halfway decent area for jobs might be the Triangle area, but I'm not sure even how that is faring these days. I'm not even going to address how I feel about South Carolina, other than to say there are only 2 cities there I would visit, let alone live in. No booming economy there, needless to say.
I agree with those who feel that a slowdown in Florida is welcome. I am not anti-growth, but we grew too much, too soon for so long that Florida was in danger of being totally destroyed. Even now we are suffering the ills of so much unplanned growth. Frankly, I hope when people are able to move around again in a better economy that they DO think other places like the Carolinas, Texas, and other states will be their dream states - my home state needs a chance to catch it's breath!
"That said, My wife wants to relocate to Florida after she graduates from Nursing School, I'm trying my damndest to talk her out of it.."
Hey, stay in TN man. Unless you are looking into North FL, I would definitely encourage you to stay in TN. I mean, do you see herds of ppl from TN moving to FL? No. There's a reason.
"That said, My wife wants to relocate to Florida after she graduates from Nursing School, I'm trying my damndest to talk her out of it.."
Hey, stay in TN man. Unless you are looking into North FL, I would definitely encourage you to stay in TN. I mean, do you see herds of ppl from TN moving to FL? No. There's a reason.
If we were to move back it would be to St. Pete Beach. I grew up in the Tampa Bay area and love the SPB area. Believe it or not, Nashville is starting to become overcrowded.
"My feeling is they experienced a mini-surge of people leaving Florida after the 2004 hurricanes. DH and I at that time purchased a 2nd home in Asheville, thinking we would have a place if Florida went underwater or something - lol.
Anyway, we realized we would never move there, as lovely as it is - there is NO employment in Western NC, it is for retirees and vacationers only - and there are massive problems - no infrastructure for growth, lack of zoning, water problems (yes, areas in NC are actually WORSE off than Florida for lack of potable water!) and other issues. I think the only halfway decent area for jobs might be the Triangle area, but I'm not sure even how that is faring these days. I'm not even going to address how I feel about South Carolina, other than to say there are only 2 cities there I would visit, let alone live in. No booming economy there, needless to say."
^^^I used to live in Asheville. Floridians are still moving up there (and have been), not just since the hurricanes of 2004. I met Floridians almost everyday. There are everywhere. And the one point I have to emphasize is how happy they were to be in a place that was laid back and the people were much friendlier. FL used to be like that, but not the case any longer (overall).
I just have to say that I disagree with "Gypsychic" that said NC is for the retirees. I met young families from all over (especially FL) all the time while up there. Many of them had better jobs and some even more pay up there than in FL. It never got that "boom" in the Real Estate biz like FL got, so it has definitely slowed, but not dead like in FL. People are still working and people are still moving up there, so jobs in Construction while not in abundance, arent hurting as badly, like FL is right now.
FL's economy depends on tourism, while a major part of NC's economy depends on banking. Both are hurting right now, but the better jobs are obviously in banking, and not in tourism. Also, the triangle which you speak of has a lot of white collar jobs, probably more than FL has in any concentrated area. Good colleges, a better quality of life than FL, less crime, and so on, are gonna keep people moving there and are gonna keep that area attractive. FL attracts NY'ers and northerners because of the hot weather. There's a difference, especially in who you are drawing to your state and why.
But to think that infrastructure, water, and growth issues are more of a problem in NC than FL, I dont know what to tell you (maybe you weren't suggesting that, but it sounded like it). But it's wrong.
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