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The two most common garden herbicides are glyphosate and 2,4D-...Do a little in depth research and I think you'll come to realize how safe those two are with essentially no unwanted effects on the environment. That's why they are used so much....I suppose there may be times when it is necessary to kill everything and start over in a garden application, but that's gotta be rare...OTOH- it's a technique used regularly in agriculture where the profit margins & time constraints make it the most efficient way to go.
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That they are used so much does not make it safe or good practice. They are used because they are cheap and easy and increase profit. I've read plenty on those poisons, I know what they are, what they do and how bad they are for every living thing.
Obviously the "kill everything approach" is NOT rare because it was the advice I read numerous times in another thread here, which was what compelled me to make this thread.
LOL yes I just love those types. Then there are the dandelion lovers, etc.
I much prefer a well maintained lawn over the wild prairie weed infested look. Fortunately in my neighborhood nearly all homeowners take pride in ownership and like there lawn to dominate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellwood
My neighbor has a "natural" field as his front garden because his wife likes the wildflowers. Here and there I see a flower, not much really, just looks like an unmoved ugly field.
That they are used so much does not make it safe or good practice. They are used because they are cheap and easy and increase profit. I've read plenty on those poisons, I know what they are, what they do and how bad they are for every living thing.
Obviously the "kill everything approach" is NOT rare because it was the advice I read numerous times in another thread here, which was what compelled me to make this thread.
Yes, glyphosate a.k.a. roundup and 2,4D "may" be safe if handled according to instructions, but I would bet many people use them however they want. There is a person on another thread who deliberately adds roundup to her water feature to kill all the frogs because their noise bothers her. Even though the label states to keep it away from water.
Yes, glyphosate a.k.a. roundup and 2,4D "may" be safe if handled according to instructions, but I would bet many people use them however they want. There is a person on another thread who deliberately adds roundup to her water feature to kill all the frogs because their noise bothers her. Even though the label states to keep it away from water.
Incredible isn't it?
Fortunately it will soon (2023) be banned for retail sales/residential use. It needs to be banned in agriculture too but that is going to take more time.
That they are used so much does not make it safe or good practice. They are used because they are cheap and easy and increase profit. I've read plenty on those poisons, I know what they are, what they do and how bad they are for every living thing.
Obviously the "kill everything approach" is NOT rare because it was the advice I read numerous times in another thread here, which was what compelled me to make this thread.
Glyphosphate is not bad for "every living thing". Even our county extension agent talks about using it in very specific instances. When it comes to using this and any other product that can kill vegetation, insects, mammals, invertebrates, etc. whether it's designed to or as a side effect he always urges (a) use the most targeted product first, and (b) read the label thoroughly before application. Too many consumers buy their products because of advertising and don't read the labels. It's the first rule in applying anything to your lawn or plants.
Fortunately it will soon (2023) be banned for retail sales/residential use. It needs to be banned in agriculture too but that is going to take more time.
It is not being banned here. If it was, I would buy enough gallons to last me the rest of my life LOL.
There is a person on another thread who deliberately adds roundup to her water feature to kill all the frogs because their noise bothers her. Even though the label states to keep it away from water.
If you do a little research involving the scientific literature, as opposed to the popular press, you'll find that
Glyphosate interferes with a particular amino acid synthetase found only in green plants-- not in animals. The only way it would affect frog populations is by killing the algae that is eaten by bugs that are eaten by frogs...And I don't don't why she swallowed the fly...Oh, wait. I got distracted.
Agent Orange, closely related to 2,4D- was used extensively in Viet Nam to destroy the vegetative cover used by the enemy. An extensive review of the literature published in JAMA (? 1981 or so) showed that American GIs exposed to AO in country had FEWER health issues and their children had FEWER health issues than the matched cohort stationed in Germany at the time (no exposure.) For political expediency, Congress voted all sorts of compensatory funding for VN Vets despite the lack of science to back the claims. (I don't begrudge them their reward, but the science doesn't back it.)
Most of us who garden do it for recreational purposes. Some of us are homesteaders and live off our labors, to some extent, if not entirely. But even without using chemicals, there is always plenty of excess to give away to friends & neighbors. We don't need to use chemicals to increase or guarantee yields.
Commercial farmers, OTOH, do need to squeeze every penny of profit out of an acre....There's the old joke about the farmer who won the big $Million lottery. "What are you going to do now?" asked the reporter..."Oh, I'll keep right on farming...at least until the money runs out," was the reply.
Personally, I weed by hand...I like hearing the weeds scream.
Obviously the "kill everything approach" is NOT rare because it was the advice I read numerous times in another thread here, which was what compelled me to make this thread.
There are those who think they should kill off everything and start over but are wary of using Roundup. They will switch to something else but might be poisoning their soil. There are products on the market, like Ortho Ground Clear, that contain Imazapyr, a chemical that will remain in the soil and actually move from target spray areas to desirable plants. The intent of these products is to leave a barren, scorched earth type of landscape. I suppose that if you have grass in sidewalk or driveway cracks it might clear that out so people might be enticed to use them. Imazapyr has a half life of five months in a normal soil. In high Ph soils that are sandy and have little organic matter it will degrade more slowly. It is degraded by microbes in the soil and there will not be that many in that type of soil. It can pass through root systems to reach adjacent desirable plants.
I learned this by sad experience. It did not kill my desirable plants but they mutated in very strange ways, chiefly where there would normally be blooms or changed the foliage into a clumping growth pattern. My soil is highly alkaline, sandy, and has minimal organic content. The remedy for damaged plants is to reduce stress, water frequently, add organic matter, lower the Ph, and introduce microbes. Some plants seem more resistant than others but I have twenty year old trees that are seriously affected.
Another thing I dont think anyone has mentioned is things growing wild harbor critters. Some may see this as a plus, and some may not. Bunnies and mice attract snakes, etc. Then, if someone decides they want to mow, they have to worry about killing bunnies or birds in the process.
Another thing I dont think anyone has mentioned is things growing wild harbor critters. Some may see this as a plus, and some may not. Bunnies and mice attract snakes, etc. Then, if someone decides they want to mow, they have to worry about killing bunnies or birds in the process.
That is for certain. TICKS are everywhere in tall grasses - I won't even walk through an area anymore with grass or vegetation that is above a couple of inches. I have had a lyme infection, and it is nothing to mess with. Also we have copperheads that love messy branch piles - no way am I looking for that kind of trouble. I am all for the good snakes (and there are plenty around, they love the frogs LOL) but I will do everything I can to discourage the bad ones, and the problematic wildlife.
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