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Old 10-28-2010, 12:02 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
7,184 posts, read 4,763,233 times
Reputation: 4867

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Lucario,

Please forgive me, but I do not think much of Tego Calderon. He is a reggaeton performer. I do not consider reggaeton music. I consider it an art form, but not music. Right or wrong, that is my opinion and I am entitled to it. Perhaps it's because I'm older.

Tego was born in PR, but he grew up in Miami. So, he's closer to a Nuyorican or an African American than he is to a PR who's raised on the island. There is a difference. Tego does not understand the importance of history and culture in color/national identity in Puerto Rico/Latin America.

Attempting to equate the African American experience in North America to the African slaves in PR is ludicrous. I have been reading tons of historical records (namely baptismal, marriage and death certificates kept by the Catholic Church) of the 19th century. It is a tedious and almost blinding endeavor, but if I can do it, so can you. I have found, time after time, that slaves in PR were allowed to marry. The slave owners had each and every slave baptized. They bothered to write their names, their date of birth, the name of the mother and grandmother. They recorded the names of their children. Do you see the significance? In other words, they were slaves, they were property, but they were considered human beings with souls. Otherwise, why baptize them? If you are black in PR, you can find your black ancestors without too much difficulty. Try doing that in the states. Look up the "slave code" in the US. Read it.

I think that deep down Tego is the one who is ashamed of his blackness, and he is the one who is ignorant. All that talk about loving "blackness" just to turn around and marry lilly white. He certainly failed to put his money where his mouth is. Please. Seriously, the island has enough problems already for Tego to come around and try to spread division and snuggle people under the victimhood blanket. It all reeks of commercial opportunism. I guess Tego didn't read the memo that said victimhood is so passe. I don't think Tego has read much in his life. Look up the name Ramon Emeterio Betances and look at his picture and then tell me how his half blackness prevented him from becoming a physician and surgeon in 19th century PR.

So, if you want to discuss the black experience in PR, please present other sources besides Tego.
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Old 10-28-2010, 06:04 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,645 posts, read 38,636,263 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDnurse View Post
Lucario,

Please forgive me, but I do not think much of Tego Calderon. He is a reggaeton performer. I do not consider reggaeton music. I consider it an art form, but not music. Right or wrong, that is my opinion and I am entitled to it. Perhaps it's because I'm older.
Yes, you are. I know you have opinions about these matters, and that's cool.

Quote:

Tego was born in PR, but he grew up in Miami. So, he's closer to a Nuyorican or an African American than he is to a PR who's raised on the island. There is a difference. Tego does not understand the importance of history and culture in color/national identity in Puerto Rico/Latin America.
What doesn't he understand?


Quote:
Attempting to equate the African American experience in North America to the African slaves in PR is ludicrous. I have been reading tons of historical records (namely baptismal, marriage and death certificates kept by the Catholic Church) of the 19th century. It is a tedious and almost blinding endeavor, but if I can do it, so can you. I have found, time after time, that slaves in PR were allowed to marry. The slave owners had each and every slave baptized. They bothered to write their names, their date of birth, the name of the mother and grandmother. They recorded the names of their children. Do you see the significance?
I do. But I still see some of Tego's (and other Afro-Latins' critiques) as valid.

Quote:
In other words, they were slaves, they were property, but they were considered human beings with souls. Otherwise, why baptize them? If you are black in PR, you can find your black ancestors without too much difficulty. Try doing that in the states. Look up the "slave code" in the US. Read it.

I have actual slave documents from PR and the US. I have done my research. I have read extensively about slavery in both countries. I know the differences. I also know the similarities.

Quote:


I think that deep down Tego is the one who is ashamed of his blackness, and he is the one who is ignorant. All that talk about loving "blackness" just to turn around and marry lilly white.
Ironic, yes. But I didn't ascribe much to it. He still probably falls under the desire to "improve the race" like I did and other Afro-Latinos. Which again proves my point. Why would he be ashamed of his blackness? Because he has been raised to be.


Quote:
He certainly failed to put his money where his mouth is. Please. Seriously, the island has enough problems already for Tego to come around and try to spread division and snuggle people under the victimhood blanket. It all reeks of commercial opportunism. I guess Tego didn't read the memo that said victimhood is so passe. I don't think Tego has read much in his life. Look up the name Ramon Emeterio Betances and look at his picture and then tell me how his half blackness prevented him from becoming a physician and surgeon in 19th century PR.
I know Betances' story. There were black doctors in the US too. One black doctor in a country (not that he was the only one, I guess) doesn't obscure the fact that the culture is indeed white supremacist, and that the opportunities for blacks to have the same opportunities to achieve as others (or those less "black") were equal across the board. I had this very discussion with a professor who helped organize a symposium on Arturo Schomburg.

Quote:
So, if you want to discuss the black experience in PR, please present other sources besides Tego.
So he's not to be believed because his opinions are not the same as yours?
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Old 10-28-2010, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
7,184 posts, read 4,763,233 times
Reputation: 4867
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
Yes, you are. I know you have opinions about these matters, and that's cool.



What doesn't he understand?




I do. But I still see some of Tego's (and other Afro-Latins' critiques) as valid.




I have actual slave documents from PR and the US. I have done my research. I have read extensively about slavery in both countries. I know the differences. I also know the similarities.



Ironic, yes. But I didn't ascribe much to it. He still probably falls under the desire to "improve the race" like I did and other Afro-Latinos. Which again proves my point. Why would he be ashamed of his blackness? Because he has been raised to be.




I know Betances' story. There were black doctors in the US too. One black doctor in a country (not that he was the only one, I guess) doesn't obscure the fact that the culture is indeed white supremacist, and that the opportunities for blacks to have the same opportunities to achieve as others (or those less "black") were equal across the board. I had this very discussion with a professor who helped organize a symposium on Arturo Schomburg.



So he's not to be believed because his opinions are not the same as yours?

Frankly, this discussion is way off topic from the OP.

Please re-read and clarify the bolded part of the paragraph and pm me. I shall be glad to answer your questions via pm.
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Old 10-28-2010, 07:56 AM
 
410 posts, read 1,494,754 times
Reputation: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDnurse View Post
I see. I went to elementary and high school with a few Cubans. I do not know too many Dominicans.

I've noticed that some Cubans have a very particular gesture to indicate black skin. They'll use their right index and middle fingers and tap their left forearm to indicate "black" color. It has always intrigued me. Is that a derogatory gesture?
I think alot of blacks use that gesture. People in my family use it as well and we aren't Cuban...LOL
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Old 10-28-2010, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,645 posts, read 38,636,263 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by ednurse View Post
frankly, this discussion is way off topic from the op.

Please re-read and clarify the bolded part of the paragraph and pm me. I shall be glad to answer your questions via pm.
ok.
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Old 10-28-2010, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Between Philadelphia and Allentown, PA
5,077 posts, read 14,639,656 times
Reputation: 3784
I am 1/2 Scottish and the other half consists of Native American, French, Scandinavian and some German. If you look at my pics, I look very ethnic... I don't have fair or reddish skin and don't have red hair. I get mistaken all the time for being hispanic; but I'm not. People always guess something way more unique than I am LOL
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Old 10-28-2010, 12:46 PM
 
Location: North of the border!
661 posts, read 1,250,741 times
Reputation: 1303
My background is Adriatic. I live near a large Native Reserve. In the summer whenever I drive through it in my old pickup, no AC windows, down I usually have a sweat band on. I must get mistaken for my Mohawk friends because I get a lot of waves and honks.
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Old 10-28-2010, 03:17 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,084 posts, read 14,855,038 times
Reputation: 4040
Hummmmm, when I left W.Africa after working in the Nigerian Rainforest for almost a year, I was darker than most blacks with a headful of bright red hair (I was brown headed before the sun got to me) In country, some Europeans thought I was the biggest Nigerian they had ever seen and U.S. Customs did question me before I was allowed to enter the country, they did not check my luggage, just me. When the customs agent asked me the second time what my race was, I turned around and mooned him, that part of me was not tanned.
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Old 10-28-2010, 04:29 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,084 posts, read 14,855,038 times
Reputation: 4040
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreaspercheron View Post
I am 1/2 Scottish and the other half consists of Native American, French, Scandinavian and some German. If you look at my pics, I look very ethnic... I don't have fair or reddish skin and don't have red hair. I get mistaken all the time for being hispanic; but I'm not. People always guess something way more unique than I am LOL
Hummmmmmm, there was an absolutely beautiful bluish Dappled Grey Percheron at the N. Carolina State Fair, somehow I doubt it was any kin to ya.
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Old 10-28-2010, 04:38 PM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,662 posts, read 25,617,651 times
Reputation: 24373
I think we have different rules on visiting another country now, but a few years back it was not necessary to have a passport to visit Mexico. We visited our son in San Diego and the Navy told us that they needed him for one more day to process his next location before he got time off, so we went to Mexico--walked over and walked back. I guess we should not have been so cheap and maybe should have gone on the tour buses. When I was on my way back to California, the border guard asked for my papers. I said, "Do you mean my driver's license." I guess my Southern accent was a dead giveaway, because he told me to go on.

I was wondering why he did that and then I remembered my jet black hair and American Indian nose and realized it is not unlike the Latino features of some. I am about 1/16 Cherokee Indian and have an ancestor that is 100% American Indian.
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