What are the Black Irish?

[Bernie20]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Slight digression; I've noticed just lately these statements that R1b is from the Pontic Steppes, but all the info I've ever come across in my research on Indo-Euro origins has said that R1a came from the Pontic Steppes, and R1b migrated to the area from the south, across the Caucasus, and blended into R1a before the population moved east. Why are people now saying R1b is from the Pontic area?

All Yamnaya tested so far have been R1b. There has also been R1b found in Mesolithic HGs in Latvia which is very interesting. R1b-M269 (the main R1b in Europe today) has not been found in Neolithic samples in Western Europe it only came into Western Europe in the Bronze Age. There has been a lot of information about this for about 18 months since the information about Yamnaya came out.


The full report is very large but you can get more info just by googling things like Yamnaya R1b Steppe etc. Or just google Yamnaya by itself. Interesting thing about the Irish is that there was a massive turnover of population in the Bronze Age with R1b and Steppe people coming in.


Massive migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe : Nature : Nature Research


The genetic information is by Haak, Reich so if you google these names you can also get information.


It is fascinating stuff. There is more information coming out shortly. Hopefully this month.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Bernie20

All Yamnaya tested so far have been R1b. There has also been R1b found in Mesolithic HGs in Latvia which is very interesting. R1b-M269 (the main R1b in Europe today) has not been found in Neolithic samples in Western Europe it only came into Western Europe in the Bronze Age. There has been a lot of information about this for about 18 months since the information about Yamnaya came out.


The full report is very large but you can get more info just by googling things like Yamnaya R1b Steppe etc. Or just google Yamnaya by itself. Interesting thing about the Irish is that there was a massive turnover of population in the Bronze Age with R1b and Steppe people coming in.


Massive migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe : Nature : Nature Research


The genetic information is by Haak, Reich so if you google these names you can also get information.


It is fascinating stuff. There is more information coming out shortly. Hopefully this month.

Thank you for this; I can always count on you for this kind of thing. I read the initial report that came out about Yamnaya, but it wasn't in a scientific journal, so -- didn't have much of the kind of detail I'm interested in.

So, what about R1a, and the high incidence of it in Russia and Poland? It must also have come from the Pontic steppes. How do those two pictures fit together?

[Bernie20]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Thank you for this; I can always count on you for this kind of thing. I read the initial report that came out about Yamnaya, but it wasn't in a scientific journal, so -- didn't have much of the kind of detail I'm interested in.

So, what about R1a, and the high incidence of it in Russia and Poland? It must also have come from the Pontic steppes. How do those two pictures fit together?

Yes R1a also. None found in Yamnaya yet but it most likely will appear if they get samples from further north. It looks like R1b men just moved en mass for some reason and more ended up on the western side of the continent. Possibly they might be able to explain more in the future.

Samara was also R1b so obviously all that area had a lot of R1b in the past. In Europe Corded Ware is R1a and Bell Beaker R1b and they both have significant Steppe admixture.

This was from the paper linked above "Summarizing the results from the Yamnaya males, all seven belonged to haplogroup R1b1a. Six of these could be further assigned to haplogroup R1b1a2a, and five of these to haplogroup R1b1a2a2. The uniformity of R1b Y-chromosomes in this sample suggests a patrilineal organization of the Yamnaya, or at least of the people who were given expensive Kurgan burials. We cannot exclude the presence of other haplogroups in the general population, or in other individuals located elsewhere in the expansive Yamnaya horizon23. We also emphasize the absence of M412 (the dominant lineage within haplogroup R-M269 in Europe) in this sample, as well as the absence of the R1a haplogroup which was detected in the Corded Ware and Late Bronze Age Halberstadt individual from central Europe. A survey of other European steppe groups may reveal the more immediate patrilineal kin of the major founding lineages of modern European R1a and R1b chromosomes."

There should be more coming about about this shortly.

[Queldorei]

Irish people with black hair and gray eyes is what my mom told me they are.