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The Great Plains is the WEST (especially areas along and west of 100 latitude and west of the Missouri River in the Dakotas) and only mimics Midwest style crops via massive amounts of irrigation through liberal federal ag subsidies. The climate is semi-arid, thus very western. The attitudes are much more libertarian and small govt (hypocrisy I know), thus western. Social conservatism seems to be the norm, another common theme in the southern and western states. The people there also identify MUCH MORE CLOSELY with cities in the Rocky Mountain region or the Sunbelt. I know this for a fact because I grew up in the Kansas City, MO metro area.
The Dakotas (and western Minnesota) certainly identify more with Minneapolis - St. Paul than places like Atlanta, Denver, Dallas or Phoenix. The northern plains are different than Kansas and Oklahoma.
The Great Plains is the WEST (especially areas along and west of 100 latitude and west of the Missouri River in the Dakotas) and only mimics Midwest style crops via massive amounts of irrigation through liberal federal ag subsidies. The climate is semi-arid, thus very western. The attitudes are much more libertarian and small govt (hypocrisy I know), thus western. Social conservatism seems to be the norm, another common theme in the southern and western states. The people there also identify MUCH MORE CLOSELY with cities in the Rocky Mountain region or the Sunbelt. I know this for a fact because I grew up in the Kansas City, MO metro area.
What would you consider to be the Midwest, then? Please don't say Ohio or Pennsylvania.
What would you consider to be the Midwest, then? Please don't say Ohio or Pennsylvania.
I don't consider the western parts of ND, SD, NE, or KS to be part of the Midwest, but the West. Western and central OH are very much part of the Midwest. Northeast OH is a bit of a hybrid with a Great Lakes culture, New England style built environment in many towns, and a more heavily forested landscape. Mansfield, OH serves as the divider of three distinct geographical and built environments. 1) The Great Lakes, 2) The Midwest core (corn and soybean belt, 3) Appalachia. Southeast and southern OH has more of an upland South cultural influences with manufacturing along stretches of the Ohio River and Alleghany River.
I don't consider the western parts of ND, SD, NE, or KS to be part of the Midwest, but the West. Western and central OH are very much part of the Midwest. Northeast OH is a bit of a hybrid with a Great Lakes culture, New England style built environment in many towns, and a more heavily forested landscape. Mansfield, OH serves as the divider of three distinct geographical and built environments. 1) The Great Lakes, 2) The Midwest core (corn and soybean belt, 3) Appalachia. Southeast and southern OH has more of an upland South cultural influences with manufacturing along stretches of the Ohio River and Alleghany River.
OK. I agree with you on OH - it has some Midwestern areas, but I wouldn't consider it to be a truly Midwestern state. It's more Northeast / South. It's even in the Eastern Time Zone. I still think the western Plains states are more Midwestern. Think about the West -- California, Washington, Oregon. Do you really think North Dakota has more in common with LA than places like Wisconsin and Iowa? Have you ever been to ND?
Also, how would you classify western Minnesota and western Iowa? Those areas are very much part of the Plains. Do they pass as Midwestern?
OK. I agree with you on OH - it has some Midwestern areas, but I wouldn't consider it to be a truly Midwestern state. It's more Northeast / South. It's even in the Eastern Time Zone. I still think the western Plains states are more Midwestern. Think about the West -- California, Washington, Oregon. Do you really think North Dakota has more in common with LA than places like Wisconsin and Iowa? Have you ever been to ND?
Also, how would you classify western Minnesota and western Iowa? Those areas are very much part of the Plains. Do they pass as Midwestern?
Western Dakotas are part of the West due to geographic landscape features, climate features, and agricultural uses. Butte topography dominates, hence the "Badlands." Ranches are very large in size and farms aren't very numerous. Crops must be irrigated for the most part, which is very common in many areas of the West.
If you look at google maps vegetation colorization zones western Iowa and southwest Minnesota are in the light grey shading, denoting corn and soybean agriculture that is common to the Midwest core. Usually irrigation is not used. Rainfall is reliable, landscape is more rolling (less rugged topography), higher population density, and more light manufacturing. The West, denoting the High Plains margins have pop densities of between 1-10 people per square mile, not similar at all to the Midwest. The rural Midwest counties have between 30-50 people per square mile with agriculture often combined with manufacturing and other light industry of varying degrees.
The midwest core is the old northwest terrritories. As the nation expanded west the plains states became part of the midwest as well, but there is no doubt the western parts of those states could also claim to be western. The area has characteristics of both regions. Ohio on the eastern side has the same issue. Eastern Ohio has traits of both the midwest and northeast states. Some states are never questioned as being part of the midwest. Ive never heard anyone question Indiana, Illinois or Iowa as part of the midwest. Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota are never questioned either, although they are somewhat different as they are more upper midwest. This debate on what is midwest and what is not has been done 1000 times in here.
Western Dakotas are part of the West due to geographic landscape features, climate features, and agricultural uses. Butte topography dominates, hence the "Badlands." Ranches are very large in size and farms aren't very numerous. Crops must be irrigated for the most part, which is very common in many areas of the West.
If you look at google maps vegetation colorization zones western Iowa and southwest Minnesota are in the light grey shading, denoting corn and soybean agriculture that is common to the Midwest core. Usually irrigation is not used. Rainfall is reliable, landscape is more rolling (less rugged topography), higher population density, and more light manufacturing. The West, denoting the High Plains margins have pop densities of between 1-10 people per square mile, not similar at all to the Midwest. The rural Midwest counties have between 30-50 people per square mile with agriculture often combined with manufacturing and other light industry of varying degrees.
I can see what you are talking about Granite and it would make sense to me if the 4 Plains States at least... The Dakotas, Nebraska and Kansas were part of the West.
If you went back 150 years, there would be no question that these states were part of the West. Huge herds of Buffalo, Pronghorn Antelope and the horse culture of the Sioux, Cheyenne, Pawnee Indians etc. Pioneers in covered wagons, cowboys bringing their herds of cattle up from Texas to Dodge City in Kansas.
But I think part of the problem is today the Plains are thought as mostly being developed into farmland or maybe ranchland. Much of the area has lost its wildness, which we associate with the West.
I can see what you are talking about Granite and it would make sense to me if the 4 Plains States at least... The Dakotas, Nebraska and Kansas were part of the West.
If you went back 150 years, there would be no question that these states were part of the West. Huge herds of Buffalo, Pronghorn Antelope and the horse culture of the Sioux, Cheyenne, Pawnee Indians etc. Pioneers in covered wagons, cowboys bringing their herds of cattle up from Texas to Dodge City in Kansas.
But I think part of the problem is today the Plains are thought as mostly being developed into farmland or maybe ranchland. Much of the area has lost its wildness, which we associate with the West.
The western areas of those states in the "High Plains" region is still very wild for the most part as large ranches dominate. I have never considered the area where my relatives ranch (NW Kansas) to be part of the Midwest at all. You have to realize that land holdings can be tens of thousands of acres. Ranching can have a symbiotic relationship with wildlife as evidenced by the success of the CRP program. Most areas of the High Plains are ranching areas and not farming areas. The exceptions are the areas near commercial agricultural processing centers which includes: feedlots, packing plants, and slaughterhouses. The panhandle regions of TX and OK have had large-scale irrigation for decades, but now the Ogallala aquifer has been rapidly depleted in many of those areas- so the landscape scale ag is transitioning back to dryland farming which is much more sustainable and CONSERVATIVE. Unsustainable liberal ag subsidies for more corn acerage to be grown in semi-arid locations- particularly for stupid uses such as ethanol and HFCS is idiotic at best.
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