Cities with best Chinese food (moving, market, hot)
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Yeah, but do you go to a place and eat at 10-20 different Chinese restaurants, or do you eat at 1 Italian place, 1 Deli, 1 sushi place, 1 Chinese place, and 1 Indian place? I get the impression that most people do the latter, not the former.
This is especially because none of the cities that are being talked about in this thread are SOLELY known for their Chinese food. If that was the only cuisine that existed in that city, that would be one thing. But since other cuisines do exist, I kind of doubt any tourist really gets a feel for how good or bad a certain cuisine is in a place unless they spend an extended amount of time there.
Fair enough. That's a valid point, and I agree with it. That said, I know a fair number of foodie friends who do go on those types of binges, and maybe the commenters are of that type.
Yeah, but do you go to a place and eat at 10-20 different Chinese restaurants, or do you eat at 1 Italian place, 1 Deli, 1 sushi place, 1 Chinese place, and 1 Indian place? I get the impression that most people do the latter, not the former.
This is especially because none of the cities that are being talked about in this thread are SOLELY known for their Chinese food. If that was the only cuisine that existed in that city, that would be one thing. But since other cuisines do exist, I kind of doubt any tourist really gets a feel for how good or bad a certain cuisine is in a place unless they spend an extended amount of time there.
The restaurant count for me easily goes past 10-20 different places in each and I'm Chinese (and can speak Mandarin), so maybe those count as bona fides?
Unfortunately, these three are also the places I have the most experience with so maybe what I've got wrong is that there are multiple places out there with better Chinese restaurants even if they have much smaller Chinese populations. From what I know/experienced in Vancouver and Toronto, these should probably be pretty far up there though I think Vancouver would have the same thing of being really canto-heavy. However, I stand by the ranking among LA, NYC, and the Bay Area metros though and would be very surprised if there were US cities that had better and/or more varied.
First of all, there are various regional cuisines within Chinese food, such as Cantonese, Shandong, Sichuan, Jiangsu, etc. There are even various styles or sub-regions within each category as well. Some of them can be pretty distinctive from each another. Chinese cuisine can be pretty broad as it is widely seen as representing one of the richest and most diverse culinary heritages in the world.
In the West (or pretty much most of the world with the exception of Japan), Cantonese cuisine has basically been the representative Chinese cuisine over the years. This is largely because historically most of Chinese immigrants in the overseas Chinese community came from southern China. However, this has certainly been changing over the recent years with immigrants from different parts of mainland China.
Naturally, when immigrants arrive at a new country, they will bring part of their culture (including their culinary heritage) with them. By understanding the region that they originated from and equally important, their social and economic status, it will logically reflect the type of cooking that they bring with them. For example, Chinese food in the West has traditionally been known as economical, quantity over quality and not reminiscent of upscale fine dining. Why? Because historically, most of the immigrants came from not well off areas (including villages) in southern China. Therefore, it is not the absolute population size of the Chinese community, but the fundamental make-up of the population will have a greater impact on the quality of the food.
So where is the best Chinese food in N. America? This can be tricky due to personal preference for one and especially in the US market trying to cater to different palates. Even the Chinese community have a wide rage of preferences depending on their background. For example, American born Chinese is very likely to have different preference from the more newly immigrants.
Going by what is considered "authentic" and reputable within the context of Greater China.
If we concentrate on Cantonese cuisine, it's actually several of the top Las Vegas resorts that have some pretty well known upscale chefs from Hong Kong. They're there to target and serve the high rollers coming from Asia. Obviously, this is a very niche area and certainly not representative of Vegas as a whole. On a more mass market level, it is pretty much a consensus that Vancouver and Toronto have high quality Cantonese food. This is largely due to Canada's more flexible immigration policy which has led to an influx of middle class Chinese immigrants, starting with those from Hong Kong a few decades ago. Naturally, middle class translates to more economic/spending power, thus more demanding and higher quality restaurants. In the US, the highest quality Cantonese food would be in the San Francisco Bay Area (btw, the better quality Cantonese restaurants are generally not in SF Chinatown - just look around the environment and is pretty obvious why as most of the middle class immigrants don't live in Chinatown). Looking at the breakdown of the Chinese community in the Bay Area, sure there’re the Taishanese from ages back but Hong Kong immigrants have traditionally chosen the Bay Area as well. In addition, Silicon Valley certainly has a big share of middle class Chinese immigrants. Another indication is where the investments are. If we look back to the 90s, a number of high profile Chinese restaurants from Hong Kong such as Harbor Village, Wu Kong, East Ocean, HK Flower Lounge and even the upscale Sun Tung Lok tried to expand into the US. They all choose the Bay Area as the destination. Last year, the Singapore based Crystal Jade group (backed by French luxury goods conglomerate Louis Vuitton), which has a strong presences across Asia, started their first expansion into the US. Their flagship destination in the US: San Francisco. The restaurant group noted the Bay Area has the most attractive underlying market dynamics (their targeted customers include the Chinese middle class such as those in the tech industry).
Aside from Cantonese cuisine, the other Chinese cuisines might be more difficult to say as they're relatively newer. The LA area certainly looks to have the strongest diverse offerings. At least for Taiwanese food as the LA area has traditionally been a big hub for Taiwan immigrants. The popular Din Tai Fung restaurant in Taiwan started its US expansion in LA a while back. It is now set up in Seattle and will be opening in the Bay Area. Another example is the popular mass market Little Sheep Mongolian Hot Pot with many outlets across Asia. Their first foray into the US market was in CA and only recently moving to other parts of the country. Even Chinese bakeries, Kee Wah of Hong Kong and 85 °C of Taiwan are both highly popular. They expanded into the US market with presence only in the Bay Area and SoCal so far.
For the New York area, there should strong offerings of Fujianese and Wenzhou style food as they form a growing part of the NY area's Chinese immigrants.
Overall, by where these immigrants originated from and their economic status is a pretty good indication of the quality of food and really reflects the type of underlying market dynamics and demand. NY might have a larger absolute population of Chinese immigrants than either LA or the Bay Area, but the latter two have attracted more middle class Chinese immigrants. Probably the most important factor of why CA is a more desirable destination is jobs. Middle class Chinese professionals have a disproportion presence in the tech and engineering industries, where CA provides many of those opportunities. Of course being closer to Asia and obviously better weather helps. This is the reason why the likes of Crystal Jade, Din Tai Fung, Kee Wah, 85 °C and other leading Greater China based restaurant groups have always choose CA as the core market in the US.
Last edited by Bigben_usa; 02-16-2015 at 05:28 AM..
A number of years ago, there was a restaurant in the SF Bay Area called China First. It was located in Palo Alto. I still remember the meals I had there and it's hard to imagine anything better. I've never matched that experience since.
I'll be honest -- some of the worst Chinese and Asian cuisine I've had was in Chicago. Maybe I didn't try the right places, but I definitely didn't enjoy it. I often see it mentioned, but I think I had a low standard for Chinese food even after moving away from Chicago because of all the bad experiences.
The 5 places that come to mind to me are SF/Oakland, NYC (Queens), Seattle, Vancouver, and Los Angeles.
I'll be honest -- some of the worst Chinese and Asian cuisine I've had was in Chicago. Maybe I didn't try the right places, but I definitely didn't enjoy it. I often see it mentioned, but I think I had a low standard for Chinese food even after moving away from Chicago because of all the bad experiences.
The 5 places that come to mind to me are SF/Oakland, NYC (Queens), Seattle, Vancouver, and Los Angeles.
I don't think Seattle is quite there yet with the other four you mention in terms of Chinese cuisine, but it's getting closer. The quality of the authentic Chinese food in Seattle has gotten exponentially better in the last 5-10 years.
In terms of the quality of Thai and Vietnamese food, though, Seattle is easily in the top 2 in the country (per capita it is number one in terms of density of Thai restaurants).
In terms of Japanese cuisine, Seattle is in the top 4-5. But Southeast Asian cuisine is really where Seattle shines.
I'll be honest -- some of the worst Chinese and Asian cuisine I've had was in Chicago. Maybe I didn't try the right places, but I definitely didn't enjoy it. I often see it mentioned, but I think I had a low standard for Chinese food even after moving away from Chicago because of all the bad experiences.
The 5 places that come to mind to me are SF/Oakland, NYC (Queens), Seattle, Vancouver, and Los Angeles.
I personally find the Chinese food in Houston quite a bit better than Chicago or Seattle. Its also exceptional in Vietnamese food. The Japanese and Korean food here, however, is not that good. Much better in Seattle and Chicago for those two.
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