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This is so true even though a lot of people from those cities don't seem to get it. I'm often surprised at how not only people from Chicago talking just like small town and rural southern blacks, but surprisingly they also often seem to lack "urbanity" or "urban sophistication" I guess you could say, as well.
I have often said the same thing. It is very bizarre that someone can be born and raised in a city as large and urban as Chicago, yet sound and act like they are on a summer trip from Mississippi. There are a lot of complex factors for this however. The first time I went to Chicago, I was very surprised to interact with many black people that sounded "countrier" than many of my relatives in North Carolina. Black Detroiters and Clevelanders sound pretty southern as well, but not to the extent of what you generally hear from black Chicagoans.
I see this word southern in a few forum topics and have never really understood the implication. is it some kind of code word for ultra right wing? or places where gun possession is the norm, if its to do with the weather how come the southwest isnt considered southern? if its about the food there's deep fried everything everywhere..
Maybe some one could point my thinking in the right direction.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,097,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wahl_Wrighter
I have often said the same thing. It is very bizarre that someone can be born and raised in a city as large and urban as Chicago, yet sound and act like they are on a summer trip from Mississippi. There are a lot of complex factors for this however. The first time I went to Chicago, I was very surprised to interact with many black people that sounded "countrier" than many of my relatives in North Carolina. Black Detroiters and Clevelanders sound pretty southern as well, but not to the extent of what you generally hear from black Chicagoans.
I almost never use African-Americans when it comes to analyzing regional dialect, because anywhere you go in this country, it's not going to be that different among them. Whites generally are who I use, in particular ones that are baby-boom generation or older...these people speak the native dialect of their areas in general.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Originally Posted by Saintmarks
Stlouisan, I have been to Missouri once in my lifetime, to Branson. Had a layover on the way from Atlanta to Denver in Kansas CIty if you count that. I am sorry my posts about suburban sunbelt boom towns has upset you. Other than that I don't care one bit how southern patterns of speech in Missouri vary from one area to the next. These linguistic maps (and yes I have seen them) are decades old and are not keeping up with the sweeping changes in major boom towns like Dallas and Atlanta. I have spent the majority of my life in rural AND suburban Texas and Georgia, so I post about what I know and have observed. I do not care if everyone in Saint Louis sounds exactly like someone from Opp, Alabama or if everyone in Dexter sounds like someone from Jersey. But I do have enough of an ear for southern accents to notice changes in my lifetime in both Atlanta and Dallas. I don't care if linguistic maps have kept up with the change or not, it has changed.
In other words, my posts are NOT about you and Missouri. The OP is not about Missouri. My posts are not about Missouri. I don't have enough info or experience to make a judgment call one way or another, nor do I want to or care to. So, don't quote my posts and then go on about my judgment of you and your state and being less than honorable. I DO NOT CARE. Clear?
Ah I see...so you're above professional studies...I think I'll stick to the experts. As far as you not always being about me and Missouri, fine. those linguistic maps are not decades old...University of PA map is 1997, and numerous maps created since that time reflect the same thing. I can assure you, little has changed since the late '90s. And dialects are not the sole determinant of whether or not somebody is southern. I still hear many southern accents in both Dallas and Atlanta...in fact, the last time I was in Atlanta was a couple of months ago. Almost everybody spoke with a southern dialect of some sort. Same with Nashville. they may or may not be as thick as before, but you can still clearly notice them.
Well, I'd say that less than half of it feels yankified. There are some suburban areas that still are firmly in the hands of native southerners:
Bartow County
Paulding County
Coweta County
Newton County
Most of Cherokee County
Southern Cobb County and much of West Cobb County
Most of Fayette County (- Peachtree City)
Most of Henry County
Much of Forysth County
Rockdale County
Clayton County
West Fulton County
Most of South Fulton County
The "yankified" areas are:
-Northeast Cobb County
-North Fulton County
-NW Gwinnett County
-South Forsyth County
-West-Central Dekalb County
-Peachtree City
-Midtown & surrounding areas
However, to be real, they're really not "yankified", but more or less a smorgasbord to people from all over the United States, which includes native Georgians, native southerners from other southern states, northeasterners, and midwesterners. In these areas, the native southern population might be fifty percent.
Excellent synopsis. When we were in Cobb, the wife taught in Bartow County and came home with local 'southernisms' from the kids on a regular basis. She is from West Texas, still has a southern accent, TX style that is, but she found the difference between Cobb and Bartow to be quite sharp. She said it felt like she went back in time about 30 years every day she crossed over the county line, lol. Of course that was in the 90s and Bartow has suburbanized a lot more since then.
We had one deacon at our church in Marietta that grew up in West Cobb and had a VERY thick southern accent. The church had a large population of transplants, he found people regularly commenting on how southern he sounded. His comment "well, last time I checked, this was still the south."
Thank you for pointing out what I have observed in my lifetime, grew up 50 miles southwest of Atlanta in Meriwether County, very much a strong southern accent in most everyone there. A difference in speech patterns from more "educated" types vs. blue collar, but both still southern.
But my kids that have grown up in Cobb County, Georgia and Collin County ,Texas have very slight southern accents.... if any at all. Ty Pennington graduated from Sprayberry HS in Marietta, the HS my kids would have attended had we not moved to Texas. I remember him as the handyman/carpenter on Trading Spaces long before he became better known on Extreme Home Makeover on ABC. Would a low budget cable show really spend that much money on voice lessons for the carpenter? He sounded then just like he does now. I would say he has not had voice lessons. I would also say his accent is typical of younger people from Cobb County today.
Julia Roberts is from an acting family but grew up in the Atlanta suburb of Smyrna, so she grew up with understanding accents and diction as a performer I am sure. I actually found her southern accent in her first big role, Steel Magnolias, to be somewhat affected and not as good a southern accent as some of the other "non-southern" stars of the movie.
Holly Hunter is from the Atlanta suburb of Conyers, GA and does have more of a southern accent, as does Alan Jackson from Newnan, GA. The suburbs to the south of Atlanta have attracted less northern transplants, so those burbs tend to sound more southern than the northern burbs.
Great post starsandstripes!
>>>>>
I actually found her southern accent in her first big role, Steel Magnolias, to be somewhat affected
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The Southern fakers are just annoying aren't they?
Not long ago, I remember my elderly momma telling me a story of how a teacher moved in from South Carolina and really hammed up the Southern accent with the other teachers. My momma and all the other teachers were like, "You're in Oklahoma; we talk quite Southern too. No need to dress it up."
Excellent synopsis. When we were in Cobb, the wife taught in Bartow County and came home with local 'southernisms' from the kids on a regular basis. She is from West Texas, still has a southern accent, TX style that is, but she found the difference between Cobb and Bartow to be quite sharp. She said it felt like she went back in time about 30 years every day she crossed over the county line, lol. Of course that was in the 90s and Bartow has suburbanized a lot more since then.
We had one deacon at our church in Marietta that grew up in West Cobb and had a VERY thick southern accent. The church had a large population of transplants, he found people regularly commenting on how southern he sounded. His comment "well, last time I checked, this was still the south."
And he is right. The South is still the South. People coming here is not going to change that fact.
I see this word southern in a few forum topics and have never really understood the implication. is it some kind of code word for ultra right wing? or places where gun possession is the norm, if its to do with the weather how come the southwest isnt considered southern? if its about the food there's deep fried everything everywhere..
Maybe some one could point my thinking in the right direction.
Unfortunately for the very ignorant of our society, it is a region of the country they like to run down. The ignorant do this to make themselves feel better about who they think they are.
I see this word southern in a few forum topics and have never really understood the implication. is it some kind of code word for ultra right wing? or places where gun possession is the norm, if its to do with the weather how come the southwest isnt considered southern? if its about the food there's deep fried everything everywhere..
Maybe some one could point my thinking in the right direction.
With no solid description to the term southern i'm wondering how those that are seeking a place with this southern (feel?) to it know it when they see it..
Reason for query is i travel through the south a couple of times a year and would like to experience this southern .. er.. whatever it is.What is it,Where is it? and how will i know when i'm there?
With no solid description to the term southern i'm wondering how those that are seeking a place with this southern (feel?) to it know it when they see it..
Reason for query is i travel through the south a couple of times a year and would like to experience this southern .. er.. whatever it is.What is it,Where is it? and how will i know when i'm there?
You'll know you're there when you stop to eat, order tea to drink, and they automatically bring you sweet tea.
Oh, and they're nice to you.
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er.. whatever it is.What is it,Where is it? and how will i know when i'm there?
