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im a white guy, and I know it exists. and i believe things can be done.
we as a country just need to figure out what we can do to get the black population back on the road to success.
it CAN happen, its just a matter of will!
Make the destruction of institutionalized racism and mass discrimination a top priority for the country,which wont happen,because only 6% of whites see racism as a real problem,and whites make up nearly 70% of the country.
....but,if you truely want to see your theories and assumptions debunked(by a rightchous,sane,and intelligent white man),here you go...
Tim Wise/ David Horowitz Exchange on Racism (http://www.zmag.org/RaceWatch/wisehoro.htm - broken link) Untitled
I asked for evidence that blacks with equal degrees/qualifications were less likely than white exconvicts to be hired, not a transcript of two political pundits debating without concrete evidence on either side about America's racial issues. By the way, Wise hasn't helped me see I'm misinformed. Wise merely mentioned where he got his ideas from and talked about how he can flood Horowitz with evidence; but with spare time I'll read those books he mentioned. I do want to find the evidence.
I just wanted to point out the possibility that the main reason minorities suffer is not just discrimination that "whites" ignore. I agree with Wise that it's not as simple as blaming it on the idea that minorities have some victimhood mentality, or on a few big reasons. From what I understand you just seem pretty sure that continued discrimination towards minorities is the primary reason for our race troubles. I just want to suggest that there are possibly significant influences from inner-city culture, lack of accepting/learning responsibility and of good parenting, and from people's lack of planning for the future.
I asked for evidence that blacks with equal degrees/qualifications were less likely than white exconvicts to be hired, not a transcript of two political pundits debating without concrete evidence on either side about America's racial issues. By the way, Wise hasn't helped me see I'm misinformed. Wise merely mentioned where he got his ideas from and talked about how he can flood Horowitz with evidence; but with spare time I'll read those books he mentioned. I do want to find the evidence.
I just wanted to point out the possibility that the main reason minorities suffer is not just discrimination that "whites" ignore. I agree with Wise that it's not as simple as blaming it on the idea that minorities have some victimhood mentality, or on a few big reasons. From what I understand you just seem pretty sure that continued discrimination towards minorities is the primary reason for our race troubles. I just want to suggest that there are possibly significant influences from inner-city culture, lack of accepting/learning responsibility and of good parenting, and from people's lack of planning for the future.
The other link that I posted mentions the study where the information came from,and if you scroll down to the bottom, it contains the researcher whom conducted the study and her credentials.You could have easily taken this information and found the study on the internet yourself,''buddy''.Although Im quite sure these types of studies mean jack poot to those with your mindstate(I anticipate your denial),and they certainly arent important enough to you to simply type 'black men discrimination in jobs' in a google or yahoo search engine and read the many results.How about this:To save us both time,just read the debate, pretend that Tim Wise is me and that you are David Horowitz.Unless of coarse you plan on posting the results of a study conducted by sociologists that proves that this study is not correct.Otherwise its just lil ole me,a black man,with my personal experience,the personal experience of most if not every black man that I have ever discussed the topic with,and actual evidence which prove that our experiences are true(evidence from studies conducted by white people,mind you),against you,a white guy, spewing his opinion on my struggles,with no evidence whatsoever to back up your opinion.
JS Online: Study shows how deeply black men face discrimination in hiring (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=175535 - broken link)
All that lack of responsability/inner city culture mumbo jumbo doesnt really amount to much if a black person accepts responsability for his actions,stays away from crime,goes to college, and presents himself in an articulate manner and yet still is so lowly valued in the labor market that white criminal is more likely to be hired.
Ever think that a lack of jobs (fueled by racist discrimination)helped create this ''inner city culture'' you speak of?or do you think blacks have some lazy,criminal gene,and ole accepting whitey never or very rarely discriminates against us, and we just would rather be jobless and turn to crime?
Last edited by lioninaconcretejungle; 11-26-2007 at 07:54 PM..
you just seem pretty sure that continued discrimination towards minorities is the primary reason for our race troubles.
I know for a fact,due to experience,and the experience of countless other people,that this is the primary reason for our race troubles.You can not tell me that the sky is not blue when I see that is blue with my own eyes,just as you can not tell me that the findings of that study arent true when I know,without a doubt,100% certain,that it is true.
For all of you who chose ''a few'' or ''sure,tons'', show me a city where the black/white income disparity doesnt exist,show me a city where low income areas arent disporportionately comprised of minorities,show me a city where the black male unemployment rate is anywhere near that of white males,and I will move there immediately.Anyone who chose a few,and especially those who chose tons,is delusional and out of touch with reality.There is no city in the white supremicist country called the United States that does not have severe racial issues and mass inequality.
Some of you seem to think that if a place doesnt have KKK members or skinhead groups brazenly and openly being active,then the place doesnt have racial issues.Discrimination in jobs and housing is what effects blacks most,not openly racist slurs or symbols.
Last edited by lioninaconcretejungle; 11-26-2007 at 07:39 PM..
Oops, didn't see the Untitled as a separate link. The URL to the study in the article is bad, so I'll have to check my school's library for it.
I read the article from js online and know that minorities unfairly get painted as criminals. Thank you for giving me some solid evidence of what you were saying earlier.
Quote:
Otherwise its just lil ole me,a black man,with my personal experience,the personal experience of most if not every black man that I have ever discussed the topic with,and actual evidence which prove that our experiences are true(evidence from studies conducted by white people,mind you),against you,a white guy, spewing his opinion on my struggles,with no evidence whatsoever to back up your opinion.
I was just suggesting other possibilities, not meaning to tear down your experiences. It's just that a lot of people fail to study out the many sides of controversies from good sources. I don't care what race the study conductor is, just that his or her methods are thorough. This is also why I don't like research sometimes as a student with little free time: it takes a long time to gather and analyze data and separate it from the junk on the internet. A lot of people throw out facts without backing them up, myself included, and that's why I was skeptical of what you and others say about any touchy subject. I never talked about this stuff with my black friends since my they never brought it up, so I didn't know.
I try not to think negatively about blacks because two of my best friends in Charlotte and one in the SF area are black. Terrell moved from inner-city Newark into a middle class neighborhood, and he focused on school and is studying pre-med. His mom works at one of the two largest banks in the US and took care of her kids despite being a single parent. Marcus graduated this year in business and is headed the same direction my dad did in banking. Marcus got into the gangster culture a bit, but I know that it doesn't mean he's lazy or indifferent to education. I know that not every gangster wannabe is a criminal.
Quote:
Ever think that a lack of jobs (fueled by racist discrimination)helped create this ''inner city culture'' you speak of?or do you think blacks have some lazy,criminal gene,and ole accepting whitey never or very rarely discriminates against us, and we just would rather be jobless and turn to crime?
I didn't mean to single out blacks, hispanics, or whoever in my mumbo jumbo for poor parenting and lacking responsibility. I was just wondering if you or someone else did studies on other reasons for our tensions. I know whites are bad at this. I'm half Chinese and have been ridiculed for my appearance and part of my culture. Parents' views tend to rub off on their kids, or lead the kids to rebel. I meant to say that everyones' lack of responsibility is partly to blame for people's troubles-whites for not considering a minority's credentials just because of prejudices and for shoving poor minorities into the projects.
I have thought about it, and that's why I think Robert Moses was the biggest mistake New York ever had and the whole idea of massive housing projects was an urban planning disaster. I know Moses and his type basically shoehorned the poor minorities into the slums. And that's why I try not to seem to claim blacks are lazy or the main problem. I've read about the projects and how it's nearly impossible to escape the drug trade or to get a decent education or jobs. I'm just saying in such circumstances people can feel hopeless and not know how to get out.
Anyways, what can I do to help us agree to disagree or at least have more positive feelings towards each other? I really hate sounding like I'm prejudiced and want to end this thread nicely.
More than a third of black Americans no longer believe that blacks are a single race. This finding has alarmed some -- but it could help America out of its racial mess.
worth a read.
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