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I was in Camden market literally just last week. It is definitely not a grocery store and literally no one in the world besides you considers it to be one. To be a grocery store fundamentally it has to be a store that sells groceries. None of these places are a single store much less a grocery store. Camden Market also sells clothing. Does that make it a department store? I don’t argue your point that you can buy groceries in downtown Atlanta although your choices appear to be very limited.
He probably meant Borough Market, which is the food market most tourists know.
Downtown Seattle density is very impressive. How many square miles is that over?
For LA, I disagree with the common definition of downtown. It’s an auto centric definition defined by freeway locations. What I see happening in the future is the areas to the west (MacArthur Park and Westlake) will be squeezed by gentrification from the west (Koreatown) and east (downtown) and will be considered part of greater downtown once they aren’t slums.
I already consider them part of downtown. I can walk there in 15 minutes while the Arts District which is supposedly part of downtown is a 10-20 minute Uber ride depending on traffic.
My point was that you can include some of the areas past the freeway and the average density still won't be that high. LA's density is impressive west of the freeway, but but any definition of "Downtown" will have a pretty limited density.
For Seattle the two land areas were 2.7 square miles (denser figure) and 4.5 square miles.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa
Some links do crane counts. But if it has pictures and addresses..... with renderings of the new high-rises to skyscrapers. It is legit to say they are as if a crane count too. .
Curbed Chicago does a new high-rises count every few months.
This was the last. Most in its Core. They would have cranes to count.
Shows Chicago at 49 high-rises to skyscrapers under-construction.
Chicago's Convention Center mentioned .... isn't even in its Downtown. It's not in the City's portal as in its CBD. It's in what one could say its Core or Greater Downtown. Even its Museum Campus .... right there by it on the lakefront. Isn't included in the City's own link for its CBD. Yet some keep expanding DC's.
Heck, I remember threads some argued Old Town just north of the official CBD the city defines in its City Portal, should be included. Others claimed ... Oh "No Way". It's ALL residential and doesn't look like being a downtown. Yet even Chicago's Gold Coast of many high-rises along Lake Michigan. Has only like a couple blocks included as its Downtown. It even looks like it should be and ifs South Loop today. Is with many high-rise to skyscrapers .... technically isn't in it.
But DC keeps getting a bigger one claimed and claims of could be a 2nd or even 3rd ....
Also, the Capital grounds to the monuments and Whitehouse .... are the whole Nations as in OURS. That is WHY THEY ARE FREE to enter and see. They are in DC ..... but to calm as DCs to boast? Of course, if not for these museums etc. DC would have much fewer.
I haven't even been talking about Chicago this whole thread. I was talking about DTLA vs Downtown DC. And idk what you mean by expanding the boundaries of DT DC, must be referring to someone else.
DC’s downtown is twice the size of Seattle. Which area are you referring to? The residential areas of DC’s downtown are in Mt. Vernon Triangle, NOMA, Union Market, Capital Riverfront, Dupont, Logan Circle, and SW Wharf. The financial district in Golden Triangle and the Government complex on the national mall don’t have much residential development like most areas of their kind across the nation.
If you include those areas I'm guessing the density is in the 20s.
My point was that you can include some of the areas past the freeway and the average density still won't be that high. LA's density is impressive west of the freeway, but but any definition of "Downtown" will have a pretty limited density.
For Seattle the two land areas were 2.7 square miles (denser figure) and 4.5 square miles.
I saw your posts in the 9th best downtown thread and from that I think that DTLA is probably half the density of downtown Seattle. Both are growing fast. Seattle growing faster in total numbers but the rates of growth may be similar. Five years from now they may be in the same ballpark with Seattle having only 50% more instead of double.
If you include those areas I'm guessing the density is in the 20s.
That’s the thing. We have areas in there that will soon have census tracts over 100K people per square mile and then we have other tracts miles away in other areas of downtown with almost zero residential. Our vibrancy, like most world class cities, is maintained by tourists, residents, and metro area residents visiting from the almost 10 million person CSA in the city. Some of our busiest areas don’t really have anybody living there like the National Mall.
Wait did I just read a poster claim that there are single family houses in Downtown DC?? Hahaha. That's a good one, I got my chuckle in for the day.
That’s probably because this forum includes half of the district in its definition of downtown.
The problem with these threads are the two conflicting, equally wrongheaded camps: the traditionalists who will only include the city’s historical CBD, and the expansionists who will include the entire core. In most cities, modern, functional downtown lies somewhere inbetween these extremes.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands
That’s probably because this forum includes half of the district in its definition of downtown.
The problem with these threads are the two conflicting, equally wrongheaded camps: the traditionalists who will only include the city’s historical CBD, and the expansionists who will include the entire core. In most cities, modern, functional downtown lies somewhere inbetween these extremes.
I don't think it's hard to comprehend. It's roughly everything south of Massachusetts and NY Avenues, west of North Capitol or First street, north of 395/695 freeway and east of about 23rd St NW.
Now much of the urbanity from those areas bleeds immediately into places like NOMA or Union Market, but those are neighborhoods not "downtown".
I haven't even been talking about Chicago this whole thread. I was talking about DTLA vs Downtown DC. And idk what you mean by expanding the boundaries of DT DC, must be referring to someone else.
When post spoke of crane counts for cities like Seattle.
You posted this⤵
Quote:
Originally Posted by the resident09
Have you been to every city on the list to count the cranes and determine otherwise?
So my comment was pointing out..... it isn't counting cranes from above etc. It is finding out the high-rises to skyscrapers under construction, and they will have cranes.
So the Chicago link was a example of using proven high-rises under construction with their renderings. That cannot be refuted by anyone claiming it is merely counting cranes. This isn't to say every link is accurate to call it a crane count. But -- Curbed Chicago and other cities ..... giving addresses and renderings. It then is credible as they will have cranes to see there.
There is a -- curbed DC too and a few other cities. Including the 5-cities mentioned in the thread topic. Mostly on Real Estate happenings.
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Yet even Chicago's Gold Coast of many high-rises along Lake Michigan. Has only like a couple blocks included as its Downtown. It even looks like it should be and ifs South Loop today. Is with many high-rise to skyscrapers .... technically isn't in it. 
They are in DC ..... but to calm as DCs to boast? Of course, if not for these museums etc. DC would have much fewer.
