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Did anyone even ask the daughter why she was in her bra? I mean, in the summer, I sit in front of my computer with practically nothing on all day because I'm just plain too hot (anything over 65° is too hot for me).
Besides, I think this thread is actually about 2 different things now: 1)about the daughter and whether she should or should not have been punished and 2) about who punished her.
You know about the old saying of not breaking the chain of command. Well, it works down the scale as well as up. Gramps had his chance to raise the kid. Now Gramps needs to butt out. By the way, what was HE doing in the room while the daughter was in her bra? What was he doing to be able to see her in her bra in the first place?
And adding this, the daughter is 17 years old. Probably in less than year, she'll be 18 and able to do whatever she likes, legally. So hitting her at this point isn't going to teach her any lessons that will come close to her heart.
I raised seven kids. They are all adults now with a good education, great jobs, and all in good marriages except for one being divorced. Granted, I didnt have to deal with computers or cell phones while raising them, but the basics for discipline I think would still qualify. One of the basics we taught our kids is that actions cause reactions and like it or not, she WILL get that message and it will serve her well for the rest of her life if it sinks in.
I agree that daughter needs to have the computer and cell phone taken away for a period of time which she is informed about at the time it happens (how long this will be for). As far as the webcam, in my opinion it needs to go permanently. She can get one herself after she becomes an adult but dad needs to explain to her that she has proven she is not responsible enough to have it yet. When she throws the old "you don't trust me" at dad his response should be "no I don't, not where the webcam is concerned. You have already proven that you aren't ready to have one yet". Then talk to her about all the different consequences that could arise because of her actions...the things the boy can and most likely will do such as taking pictures and sharing them with others, plus the fact that his opinion of her will probably not be a good one, with good reason. Dad needs to let her tell her side of what happened with grandpa, then discuss with her his feelings about that, and that he will be talking to grandpa also and those things will not be allowed to happen again.
At 17 she is very close to being an adult but not quite there yet. But in her head she is an adult and believes she has the right to make her own decisions about things like using the webcam almost naked. That's where dad needs to explain that she is living in his house, and because of that he gets to make the rules AND expect them to be followed whether she agrees with them or not. I get the feeling that dad is trying to be a friend as well as a parent, and I think that probably stems from him feeling guilt over the situation regarding divorce and her not having both parents in the home. Most likely that's why he is using a soft approach with her. He needs to accept that being a parent is not always easy, but is always required. Being her friend is not his job, being her parent is. But I can understand that tough love is probably very hard for him because of the divorce, only one parent, etc. Not making excuses for him at all. It's just a place parents sometimes go when their child only has one parent to guide them.
As far as grandpa, I think it's possible that since dad wasn't home when the situation was first discovered grandpa felt he had to do something to stop the skyping in her bra. Then she mouthed off and the situation escalated. In grandpa's generation a girl wouldn't even consider chatting with a boy undressed, or back talk to an elder. So he was probably dealing with confusion as to what he needed to do but felt he should do something since dad wasn't home to handle it, he knew he shouldn't/couldn't just let it continue. Then dad enters the picture and instead of supporting grandpa's stance he tries to soften the situation in his daughter's favor which most likely made grandpa more angry leading to him losing his cool. Dad definitely needs to have a talk with grandpa also, and relate to him what the daughter said about not wanting to see him or talk to him, or be around him. If handled correctly this particular part of the problem can most likely be worked through over time, but with some ground rules laid down, the first being that grandpa can under no circumstances discipline the child physically in any way.
Also I imagine what his daughter did caught Dad off guard and has hurt him that his daughter would do such a thing, because like most or even all of us, we like to think that our kids are the one perfect thing we have done in life and when they prove to be less than perfect we take a blow and it puts a crack in our mental picture of our beautiful perfect child. Dad needs to step into the role of parent and stop trying to be her friend, he can't do both and be a good parent, which he owes to his daughter. Is parenting easy? Heck no, there is nothing easy about tough love but it is one of the requirements of taking on the responsibility of having children.
OP, I wish you only good things while working through this situation. Think with your head before your heart. It's obvious you love your daughter so put your feelings on the back burner and put her first by being the good parent that she needs and deserves. Will she get mad at you? You bet. Will she get over it? In 99 out of 100 instances the answer is yes and your hurt will be worth it in a few years when you see your adult daughter being responsible and achieving many good things in her life, including being a good parent to her children.
I'm sorry I only read the first couple of pages but wondering if anybody has suggested this father needs to get in touch with the BOY involved and let him know in no uncertain terms he had some responsibility in this. Did he encourage the girl to be half dressed? What clothes did he have on? Do his parents know what he does on skype? While the boy has no responsibility in what the GF did he certainly needs to be made aware that sort of communication is not allowed.
I would punish the girl by limiting her computer time. Do you have parental controls on it? Can you trace her activities? God only knows what a 17 year old girl who skypes half naked is also doing.
I would also inform the mother AFTER you can honestly tell her the girl has been punished and warned never to do it again-both skype half naked and disrespect her GF.
Regarding your father....you need to inform him that what he did was assault and if you hadn't been there the girl or neighbors could have called police and he would be arrested for assault. You need to explain to him times has changed and people don't hit their kids and certainly grandparents don't hit their grandkids.
I would not force any apology. Forced it would not be genuine or heartfelt. Eventually both might calm down and spontaneously apologize. I would definitely TELL your father he has to call first before coming over and it would be best if he didn't come over for at least 2 weeks to give them both time to reflect.
I'm very concerned about your lack of ability to talk to either one of them. Both should be talked to privately and told nothing like this will ever happen in your home again.
I'm sorry I only read the first couple of pages but wondering if anybody has suggested this father needs to get in touch with the BOY involved and let him know in no uncertain terms he had some responsibility in this. Did he encourage the girl to be half dressed? What clothes did he have on? Do his parents know what he does on skype? While the boy has no responsibility in what the GF did he certainly needs to be made aware that sort of communication is not allowed.
Really? A teenage boy having responsibility for trying to undress a teenage girl?
Filing a report might be the best thing to do. In any case there is no excuse for anyone to do what your father did. When it comes to a man hitting a woman or especially a young girl I have no tolerance. He should have let you handle the situation. I would be willing to bet that this isn't the first time your father has hit a woman. Good luck.
1, your daughter is hurt because her grandfather hit her, but she ISN'T hurt because she got caught... SHE'S POUTING that she got caught. That's probably more like the reason she's lying on her bed and not eating. Take away her computer privileges and have someone like a counsellor talk to her about the dangers of skypping semi-nude. Tell her that her behaviour is NOT acceptable in your home. I hope you realize that she needs to be on birth control if she isn't already??
2, Talk to your father. Tell him he must apologize to your daughter. Tell him his behaviour was unacceptable in your home, and he DARE not repeat it again or you will call the police and he will not be allowed back into you home.
My 17 year old daughter was just in bra, sitting on the computer and being on camera with a boy. I wasnt at home. When I entered the house, I heard yelling and went to her room, my father was lecturing her. I stepped in and told him that I will take care of the situation and told him to leave the room. Now, my father is that type of a guy who always was so traditional and old school, but its not an excuse for what he did. Anyway, he didnt listen to me and didnt leave her room when I asked him to do so, but he kept scolding her, so she mouthed off to him and disrespected him, then he took out his belt and hit her legs and slapped her cheek. I was shocked, but pushed my father out of the room and got back, trying to calm her down, but she just kept crying. Eventually she stopped but she was just laying in her room, didnt even want to eat or drink water and she usually loves eating with me.
Im out of mind, I am so mad at him, but I dont know what to do and how to solve this problem. He is not living with us, neither does her mother. She doesnt know what happend. Should I even tell her? Im the legal guardian of my daughter. I dont even know how to address the camera problem, should I even punish her after this? I dont support corporal punishment, I am at my wits end with my father. What should I do?
IMO, as a Mom of a 20yr old (21 next month), 18yr old (19 soon enough), and 15yr old (16 in June) daughters (YES "cursed" with all girls!!!); I would say you are TOO soft with her, and you Dad had enough of her walking all over you, so he stepped in and parented her as she should be.
There is NEVER a reason for a 17yr old girl to be skyping a boy half naked. NEVER a reason!
He disciplined her first by lecturing/yelling at her; when she got that current generational attitude that almost each and every teen has nowadays with him, I can almost guarantee you that's when he got pissed and tried to bust her butt and popped her in the mouth for back talk.
She got off easy IMO, if I would have even let THOUGHTS like that cross my mind, the back of my head would have bounced off the wall behind me, lol!
I know you wanna be her friend, but she already HAS friends for that, you need to be her PARENT first and foremost! Being a parent doesn't entail you letting her get away with disrespectful behaviour to anyone, let alone her grandfather.
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Originally Posted by Mattie
What led to the blowup doesn't matter. The grandfather was out of line, regardless of what the teen did.
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Originally Posted by CSD610
Write her a letter? Seriously?
How about sitting her down in the living room and telling her what she did is completely inappropriate to her face.
Then go and clean out her room of everything except her bed and clothing, take her cell phone, take her computer, take all her gadgets and keep them until she is legally and financially responsible for herself.
The Grandfather did what he knew best and I would have gotten the same treatment had I mouthed off to my Grandfather and disrespected him.
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Originally Posted by Tacere
Honesty, I don't think he was out of line at all. Skyping naked or semi nude with a boy then mouthing off to your grandfather? You becha I would have belted her as well.
I am shocked that people are actually thinking the grandfather was at fault here.
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Originally Posted by steelstress
She's too damn old to be spanked, but not too old to be held accountable for her stupidity and mouthing off.
As for grandpa...he should have just called out for you at least... ripped the computer out from her at most and let you deal with it.
Now, first, you have a talk with your dad at the inappropriateness of spanking her and lay down the law as to how the next situation will be handled (whatever that may be).
Second, you punish your daughter for being on camera in her underwear so some horny kid could have his jollies and for mouthing off to your dad.
The way I was raised, you are NEVER too old to have grandma or grandpa bust your butt! My 30yr old cousin got a DUI after he came home from the war, and when he got outta jail, he got his butt whupped by our then 93yr old grandmother. Sure, it didn't hurt; but it was the principle of the point that counted.
Secondly, grandpa was NOT out of line, IMO. He was doing what Dad couldn't/wouldn't do which is try to ptu the child back in line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie
Yes, seriously. Her actions were inappropriate, I agree. But I see no good coming out of further alienating this girl by strong arm discipline. Her mother left, and her grandfather hit her, her father needs to fill a lot a lot of roles right now. If she won't speak to him, a letter is a great way to reach out.
Since when do grandparents override parents when it comes to discipline?
Bah! Life sucks, so her Mom left. Some people get dealt a crappy hand in life; that does NOT entitle them to a free pass for bad behaviour.
Both my biological parents were a**holes. My Mom was a drugged out, drunken party girl; who loved to party more than she loved her kid, and my Dad was plain out and out mean, and tried to blow up our car with me and Mom in it for the insurance money. And I bitter and think the world owes me something for having crappy parents?! Hell no, cause my grandparents raised to be thankful for the blessings I did have, and the things I earned.
"Don't go around thinking the world owes you anything. The world owes you nothing, it was here first."~Mark Twain
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Originally Posted by doz884
Uh, of course that I am worried about the skyping part as well, that is my main concern. But I was supposed to deal with it, not him. Hitting a child, let alone a girl, who is in her teens... Thats just a big no-no.
I dont think that she is trying to fool me, because she is honest and nice kid. When she does something, she is not lying about it. And she is a real young lady, so I dont know why she thought that going on camera like that is fine.
I went in her room today, hugged her and asked her to talk. We were talking about the issues and she understands that what she did was wrong. About the disrespect part, she said that her grandpa had no right to tell her stuff and be harsh like that and she refuses to apologize. She insulted him again, shd says that she felt really hurt when he hit her. She mentioned the police, she said that she doesnt want to involve them though. But she refuses to be at home when her grandpa would come and she says she wont talk to him anymore. Mabye she is just mad. I still dont know if I should punish her and how. She already feels bad about the whole situation and what she did, but she is sad. I can see that and I dont want that. I will continue talking to her about this, but I am just not sure if a punishment is really neccessery.
My daughter also doesnt want her mother to know about this. Should I respect that?
And no, my kid is not a brat and I dont do everything she asks for. We do what we both like, with talking and making a deal. Understanding eachother. I dont know why would you say that, when you dont even know her.
However, I appreciate your time and advices.
She's not mad she was "hurt" she's mad she got caught! I bet you (coming from experience here) she is not one bit sorry for running off at the mouth, nor is she a bit sorry for having cyber sex with a boy.
You don't know if you should punish her?!
That right there is why your Dad stepped in.
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Originally Posted by Tacere
Get over it. She wasn't beaten up or raped, or abused. She was punished for what she did by apparently the only person with some balls in your house. She doesn't need hug, she won't be traumatized by it, she is playing you.
Honest and nice kid? Getting caught having cyber sex then mouthing off about is what honest and nice kids do? How did you deal with her transgressions, by the way? At the moment it seems to me like you are encouraging her behaviour and soothing her for being held accountable.
Personally, I would have slapped her the moment she disrespected her grandfather again. But I think it's too late now, congratulations for being her friend, and not her parent (and I honestly thought you were her mother, seeing how I tend to think women are weaker and more afraid of their children than fathers are).
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Originally Posted by hothulamaui
because violence works so well with children you are parenting.
Worked for millions before her, and it will work for millions after; even more if we can get over this PC liberal hippy Dr. Spock "everyone is a special snowflake and deserves a medal, even for last place" mindset that is infesting this country.
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Originally Posted by germaine2626
Nice girls do not Skype half naked. And nice girls do not disrespect their grandparents.
BTW, she probably should not be threatening to go to the police about this matter. I would be very surprised if this was the first time that she was on camera without being properly clothed. If she has sent naked photographs or there are naked screen shots (while Skyping) of her she can be charged with child pornography (as she is under 18). It rarely happens, but there are cases where the police charge the person who sent the naked photographs as well as the people who received the naked photographs.
Also, if she goes to the police it is likely that CPS will get involved and it may not end well for anyone in your family.
Are you kidding me? You don't know if you should punish her for being on camera in her bra for anyone on the other end to view?
You don't know if you should punish her because she seems "sad"? She is probably sad because she got caught.
Teenage boys are not known for keeping racy photographs private. Half her school may have already seen screen shots or photographs of her. Even if he shared the photographs with only a couple of friends, they probably sent them on to a couple of their friends, and they sent them to their friends, etc., etc. And once something is on the internet it is there forever.
At the very minimum you need to take away her computer and her Smartphone. If it was my daughter I would do it for at least one month. If I found out that she had done things like that before or was naked in photographs or on Skype it would be at least several months, plus other things taken away as well. If she has to do home work on the computer she would need to do it at school or in the living room, while you are sitting next to her watching to make sure that it is just homework and not texting (or sexting) her friends.
Who is the parent, you or your daughter?
If she did something like this at her mother's house you would want to be informed about it, wouldn't you?
Her mother must be informed. And, if the SHTF that is just the way it was meant to be.
From what you have written it sounds like the daughter is making the rules at your house. That is why people are suggesting that she is a brat.
BRAVO!!!! Exactly!!1
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Originally Posted by Mattie
Grandpa did not respect his son, nor his granddaughter. This teen was not sexting. She was wearing a bra. Might her intention have been to remove it? Maybe, we don't know. But she didn't disrobe any further than what is acceptable on the beach.
Dad, you know your daughter far better than anybody here does. If you say she's a good person, that's enough for me. And I notice you are defending her more than your own father. That makes me think you realize your father overstepped his bounds. I think he did too.
How do you know it wasn't sexting/cyber sex? You never had sex with half your clothes on? Foreplay is a real thing! So is teasing a boy.
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Originally Posted by Tacere
That wasn't abuse, that was discipline.
When the word abuse gets thrown around so often, it loses meaning. Read about Ethan Ali and countless other children tortured to death by their parents. They were abused. She was disciplined because the father is too weak willed to do it.
He sounds like one of those "I want to be your friend, please like me" kind of parents. Their kids always seem to become self absorbed and narcissistic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4
Outside of self-defense, no one has the right to hit another person.
Having to resort to hitting a 17 year old girl demonstrates a lack of control and maturity. Grandpa is a jackass.
Being a 17yr old girl is never an excuse to verbally berate her grandfather while he is trying to tell he to put her clothes on and not cyber sex a boy.
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Originally Posted by photobuff42
See, this is the problem. Kids have no guidance today. Just because models wear ads to sell bras doesn't mean that it's okay to wear only a bra to Skype.
How was she supposed to understand this without parental guidance?
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Originally Posted by Tacere
"Would of had"? Jeez, American education at its finest.
So, it's ok for a son to hit his father, but not ok for a grandparent to hit his granddaughter. Great logic there!
Quote:
Originally Posted by slingshot
Filing a report might be the best thing to do. In any case there is no excuse for anyone to do what your father did. When it comes to a man hitting a woman or especially a young girl I have no tolerance. He should have let you handle the situation. I would be willing to bet that this isn't the first time your father has hit a woman. Good luck.
First....Take the computer out of your daughters room...and dismantle the camera....block skype...And ground her from the computer....or store it away from her...I'd check her cell phone too if she had one.
Not sure what you should do with your Father...I realize slapping her cheek, and swatting her with a belt are drastic...and may be abusive...But the bigger issue to me is your daughter is doing things that could damage her whole life...
I'd get her into counseling asap....The acts you father did will likely be reported by her counselor....But, it is the only way to get help for your daughter...Who definitely needs it. What a mess....
Uh, of course that I am worried about the skyping part as well, that is my main concern. But I was supposed to deal with it, not him. Hitting a child, let alone a girl, who is in her teens... Thats just a big no-no.
I dont think that she is trying to fool me, because she is honest and nice kid. When she does something, she is not lying about it. And she is a real young lady, so I dont know why she thought that going on camera like that is fine.
I went in her room today, hugged her and asked her to talk. We were talking about the issues and she understands that what she did was wrong. About the disrespect part, she said that her grandpa had no right to tell her stuff and be harsh like that and she refuses to apologize. She insulted him again, shd says that she felt really hurt when he hit her. She mentioned the police, she said that she doesnt want to involve them though. But she refuses to be at home when her grandpa would come and she says she wont talk to him anymore. Mabye she is just mad.
I still dont know if I should punish her and how. She already feels bad about the whole situation and what she did, but she is sad. I can see that and I dont want that. I will continue talking to her about this, but I am just not sure if a punishment is really neccessery.
My daughter also doesnt want her mother to know about this. Should I respect that?
And no, my kid is not a brat and I dont do everything she asks for. We do what we both like, with talking and making a deal. Understanding eachother. I dont know why would you say that, when you dont even know her.
However, I appreciate your time and advices.
This may come across as harsh.....But honestly....You need to open your eyes. What you Dad did was maybe wrong....But do not keep letting your daughter deflect from her online behavior...
I feel like you are failing to do what you need to as a parent....You do realize how dangerous her behavior on the internet is, right??? I get the sense many posters are more afraid for her because of her actions, than you seem to be???
You have got to treat this situation with the seriousness it deserves. Kids are committing suicide when they find out their pics are being shared by "their true love"
Of course you tell her mother....You do not undermine their relationship by conspiring with your daughter.
The fact that she is manipulating you to such a degree about her terrible behavior is very telling...it is probably why your Dad lost it.
Bottom line this kid needs to be put in check....I do not believe this was the first time she has done this...But, you better make sure it is the last. I would take all computer and phone lines out of my house....Til she is 18. Then at least you won't be charged for her illicit online behaviors.
You need to be in the "protect her from herself mode" That means actions...not passivity.
I'd get a techie friend who knows computers to check on her behaviors...have them do a history check on her computer...then you'll know what she has been up to online ...You might get scared into doing the right thing...Which is to put your foot down Hard! and stop tip toeing around your daughter!
Last edited by JanND; 03-12-2015 at 09:04 AM..
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Foreplay is a real thing! So is teasing a boy.
