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Originally Posted by lhpartridge
You have 18 years to learn enough skills to support yourself. If you are an able-bodied person of at least dull normal intelligence, over 18 and have no skills, who is responsible? I worked two jobs when I was 18 so that I could pay for an emergency that arose suddenly. It never crossed my mind to get someone else to pay for my life.
Why would it occur to anyone else that a third party is responsible for their bills?
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwomyn
I couldn't care less, about you bragging about your own life. Many kids from poverty-stricken families, are never told that they are capable of earning their own way in the world. And they have no hope, of escaping their situation. Many poor parents are too busy trying to put food on their table, to take the time to school their kids, in the skills that it takes to get, and hold, a job.
I think that there should be programs in all of the public schools, to teach kids about how to apply to and interview for jobs, manage their finances, invest their money, and put aside money for their futures. Every kid could benefit from such a program, and it would be esepcially important for poor kids, many of whom don't have the hope that they can ever escape their situation.
That's why I thought that you could make some constructive suggestions, as to how poor kids could be helped to get on the right path, to becoming self-sufficient. But instead, you just had to keep crowing about your own accomplishments, and keep the discussion centered on your own life.
Although I certainly did not intend to brag, and indeed, don't really see how my singular reference to my own experience could be taken as bragging, that is how you saw it. I don't see how you can characterize one statement that I made as "you just had to keep crowing about your own accomplishments ...." I was trying to make some constructive suggestions, in that I was pointing out that I was able to take care of myself without asking anyone else for help at the age of 18. My point is that, as I said in an earlier post, every child can use the library to teach him or herself in even the worst schools. By the way, I am still hoping that you are going to address some of the questions that I put to you in those other posts.
I have worked 18 years in one of the poorest schools in the country. I am speaking from personal experience when I say that some of my best students were self-raised children. That is, they had NO FUNCTIONAL PARENTS AT ALL--no one at home to work, to get the kids up for school, to feed the children, or to love the children. Fortunately, most of the teachers in my school do love and care for the children as if they were their own.
I don't believe that any child can go through an entire 12-15 years of school and NEVER hear ANYTHING about being able to have a productive life if they work hard and apply themselves in school. Even in the worst schools, there is going to be at least one person who is there for the kids.
I went to a school that was supposedly one of the best in our state. I barely learned anything, and I never learned about how to apply or interview for jobs, how to manage my finances, how to invest my money, or to put my money away for my future. If I had, I probably would never have become a teacher, because there has been no money to invest, probably because I never learned how to manage it.
I agree with you that these programs should exist in all the schools. Fortunately one of our nation's self-made millionaires is funding just such a program in our school that places students in internships in high-profile firms. It is an excellent program that should be replicated all over the country. However, it is a private program, NOT funded by the government.
As this post really is all about me, I suppose I should add some crowing about some of the kids for whom I have made the difference in life--the one who got into the US Naval Academy after I had him apply for the International Baccalaureate school; the one whose mother was throwing away her scholarship offers because she didn't want her daughter to go to college and leave her--I helped her get herself ready to take on her adult responsibilities; the one whose mother died of a crack overdose whom I practically adopted, paying his housing application and helping him move into his dorm three hours away; the one this year who was trying to take care of his older sister's three kids after she was arrested for burglary, even though he was an orphan himself and only in the tenth grade, trying to stay in school with no functional adults in his life whatsoever--he still tells me frequently how he wouldn't have made it without me.
THAT is crowing. I believe that I have something to crow about. Not me taking care of myself at 18, but me helping other kids to be able to take care of themselves and their families. I do that every day. coc-a-doodle-doo!
This afternoon, tutoring students after school, we were talking about real poverty, not the kind that we have in the US. One of the students had seen Slumdog Millionaire and one had not. THAT is real poverty. We have a few students in really bad conditions--homes with no front doors or heat, for example, but nothing that can really compare with having to earn your living as a 7-year-old selling turns on a public crapper. If you haven't seen it, please do. You won't use the term poverty quite the same way afterwards.
You said that many poor children have no hope of escaping their situation. You are right--they don't. It is my mission to give them not only that hope, but the power to do something about it. I'll share with you a metaphor that I use with my students:
Imagine a man wearing shackles on his arms and legs.
Now imagine that they are unlocked.
It is within his power to take off the shackles. So why is he still wearing them? My students can tell me. I hope that you can too.
America isn't denying the poor a damn thing! Some very poor people have worked hard to become millionaires, even when the odds seemed to be against them. And you know why they made it? Because they spent less time bitching and complaining about being poor, and more time actually doing something to change their situation.
Of course, in the United States, there are a plethora of programs, grants, loans and civic organizations to help the poor, provided they fall within certain racial/minority groups. This is a fact, so don't even start with the racists accusations. We also know that these "special interests" groups take full advantage of these programs/freebies, making them not-so-poor after all. If you can afford to buy the newest cells phones with all the gadgets, you have a Wii/X-Box/Playstation/Computer in your home, you have a car of some descript and you are able to buy fast food, but you can't afford rent or bills, then you are not, technically, poor, you are just unable to manage your money in a responsible and adult manner.
How well I do in life is MY responsibility and not the government's or the tax payer's.
What you are, is just another person, who assumes that all of the poor live in the projects, and buy frivilous items. And it was YOU who brought up racism. So that tells me that race is on your mind regarding the poor. If it wasn't, then you wouldn't have brought it up.
Some people that were on welfare, are now wealthy. Whoopi Goldberg, was on welfare for a while, when she was a struggling stand-up comedianne. And look at her now; wealthy, famous and a role model.
What you are, is just another person, who assumes that all of the poor live in the projects, and buy frivilous items. And it was YOU who brought up racism. So that tells me that race is on your mind regarding the poor. If it wasn't, then you wouldn't have brought it up.
Some people that were on welfare, are now wealthy. Whoopi Goldberg, was on welfare for a while, when she was a struggling stand-up comedianne. And look at her now; wealthy, famous and a role model.
No when you look at the mounbt of deficit spending caused by the ever growing welfare programs serving the poor in thsi country it's evident that the 60's had liitle support in fact. But the facts are now the taxpayers actually support a much large portition of low income on those program every year.Just the groth in medicaid is at the unsustainbale level.
The budget for welfare, is only a fraction of government spending. The government got itself in the red, by spending billions on two senseless wars, and bailing out the banks.
If you wanna get your nose out of joint about being taxed, remember that many more of your tax dollars went to pay for the government bailouts and wars, than for welfare spending!
What you are, is just another person, who assumes that all of the poor live in the projects, and buy frivilous items. And it was YOU who brought up racism. So that tells me that race is on your mind regarding the poor. If it wasn't, then you wouldn't have brought it up.
Some people that were on welfare, are now wealthy. Whoopi Goldberg, was on welfare for a while, when she was a struggling stand-up comedianne. And look at her now; wealthy, famous and a role model.
No, what I am is someone who was raised in a hard working middle class home, became middle class myself, then had a short period of being what is classed as "rich," from there went to being honest-to-goodness poor, and then back to at least lower middle class, then poor again and now upwardly mobile middle class. I've been there, done that, and lived it. But I never blamed society, nor did I go begging to the government for a hand-out. But I did seek out help towards educational funding and had every door slammed in my face because I didn't fall within any of the "special interests" groups. So I got off my ass and pulled myself back up every painful inch of the way.
My grandparents, great-grandparents and great-great-grandparents were poor WHITE folks.
Well, many poor parents, don't have the time to teach good manners.
That makes no sense whatsoever. Building character and teaching manners does not cost a thing. Any people who "don't have the time" to teach their children basic things like manners and values should not be allowed to be parents in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwomyn
It WAS just a joke, which you posters obviously can't take. Besides, you're trying to make this thread about me again.
Why is it that you think everyone who disagrees or contradicts you is making a personal attack against you? I thought I was a bit of a narcissist but I've got nothing on you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwomyn
The point is, not all poor kids are into drugs.
And not all wealthy people hate the poor and want to keep them down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwomyn
Unemployment benefits, welfare, and food stamps, are all seen by some as 'hand-outs'.
When they are given to help out someone when they are down, those things are a helping hand. When they are still being given to someone a few years later who has no physical or mental reason to not be working to support themselves, then they become hand-outs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwomyn
Pell Grants for college, are also government monies. So why aren't recipients of Pell Grants, seen as being hand-outs??
Recipients of Pell Grants need to work for their grants. They have to maintain a certain level of academic achievement (refereed to as "satisfactory academic progress"). A student cannot receive a Pell Grant and not go to class, study and maintain a certain GPA.
Although I certainly did not intend to brag, and indeed, don't really see how my singular reference to my own experience could be taken as bragging, that is how you saw it. I don't see how you can characterize one statement that I made as "you just had to keep crowing about your own accomplishments ...." I was trying to make some constructive suggestions, in that I was pointing out that I was able to take care of myself without asking anyone else for help at the age of 18. My point is that, as I said in an earlier post, every child can use the library to teach him or herself in even the worst schools. By the way, I am still hoping that you are going to address some of the questions that I put to you in those other posts.
I have worked 18 years in one of the poorest schools in the country. I am speaking from personal experience when I say that some of my best students were self-raised children. That is, they had NO FUNCTIONAL PARENTS AT ALL--no one at home to work, to get the kids up for school, to feed the children, or to love the children. Fortunately, most of the teachers in my school do love and care for the children as if they were their own.
I don't believe that any child can go through an entire 12-15 years of school and NEVER hear ANYTHING about being able to have a productive life if they work hard and apply themselves in school. Even in the worst schools, there is going to be at least one person who is there for the kids.
I went to a school that was supposedly one of the best in our state. I barely learned anything, and I never learned about how to apply or interview for jobs, how to manage my finances, how to invest my money, or to put my money away for my future. If I had, I probably would never have become a teacher, because there has been no money to invest, probably because I never learned how to manage it.
I agree with you that these programs should exist in all the schools. Fortunately one of our nation's self-made millionaires is funding just such a program in our school that places students in internships in high-profile firms. It is an excellent program that should be replicated all over the country. However, it is a private program, NOT funded by the government.
As this post really is all about me, I suppose I should add some crowing about some of the kids for whom I have made the difference in life--the one who got into the US Naval Academy after I had him apply for the International Baccalaureate school; the one whose mother was throwing away her scholarship offers because she didn't want her daughter to go to college and leave her--I helped her get herself ready to take on her adult responsibilities; the one whose mother died of a crack overdose whom I practically adopted, paying his housing application and helping him move into his dorm three hours away; the one this year who was trying to take care of his older sister's three kids after she was arrested for burglary, even though he was an orphan himself and only in the tenth grade, trying to stay in school with no functional adults in his life whatsoever--he still tells me frequently how he wouldn't have made it without me.
THAT is crowing. I believe that I have something to crow about. Not me taking care of myself at 18, but me helping other kids to be able to take care of themselves and their families. I do that every day. coc-a-doodle-doo!
This afternoon, tutoring students after school, we were talking about real poverty, not the kind that we have in the US. One of the students had seen Slumdog Millionaire and one had not. THAT is real poverty. We have a few students in really bad conditions--homes with no front doors or heat, for example, but nothing that can really compare with having to earn your living as a 7-year-old selling turns on a public crapper. If you haven't seen it, please do. You won't use the term poverty quite the same way afterwards.
You said that many poor children have no hope of escaping their situation. You are right--they don't. It is my mission to give them not only that hope, but the power to do something about it. I'll share with you a metaphor that I use with my students:
Imagine a man wearing shackles on his arms and legs.
Now imagine that they are unlocked.
It is within his power to take off the shackles. So why is he still wearing them? My students can tell me. I hope that you can too.
The things you have done will make a huge difference in those young lives. You helped them find a way up and out, which is far better than a never-ending check. What you have done is so much more meaningful than a poster who drones on and on about how the the trough of hand-outs should be enlarged beyond the pit it already is now.
Hand-outs take away initiative in most humans.
I admire what you have done instead.
P.S. She will never get it. Everyone needs to stop arguing with her - she will never put her efforts and money where her mouth is.
artwomyn, why do you refuse to believe that a huge portion of the poor people in this country refuse to put the effort in to move up in this country?
i grew up fairly poor, hand me downs, eating out of the garden, dad and mom both working extra jobs, hours, etc. they, just like almost every other person in this country, started out with low paying jobs and put the effort in. either you can put the work in and get promoted or you can put the effort into school and get promoted. but, you will only get out of life what you put into it. you can live like the squirrels, storing food and working all summer so you get to eat good all winter. or, you can live like the raven, never store anything, and eat roadkill for ever. its not about the amount of money you make, its about the amount you SPEND! if they cant afford it, then they dont need it. if i cant afford it, then i dont need it. look up freegans and then complain about the poor. i respect those people!
Only X amount of people can be promoted or go to school. If everyone did this then there would be no one to hep you find something at Walmart, there would be no cars made since everyone who work in the factory would go back to school. This concept will probably go over you heard. The cost of living has not been on par with what it is supposed to. If it was we would not have nearly as many poor people.
The poor will never be of value if they don't get off their duffs and get jobs that can support them and their families. Otherwise, they are just leaches, draining away at society.
So it is their fault that the job they do does not make enough for them to live on when they did not create that job? They have no control over what a job pays yet when it does not make enough to live on it is their fault? When did having a job any job become not good enough for people to be able to provide a living for themselves? It sure was enough in the 1950's. You did not answer my question if all poor people got a job that could support themselves who would do these jobs like cashiers at grocery stores or secretaries at doctors offices? Since when is working a job being a leech to society? leeches are people who sit around and do nothing.
So it is their fault that the job they do does not make enough for them to live on when they did not create that job? They have no control over what a job pays yet when it does not make enough to live on it is their fault? When did having a job any job become not good enough for people to be able to provide a living for themselves? It sure was enough in the 1950's. You did not answer my question if all poor people got a job that could support themselves who would do these jobs like cashiers at grocery stores or secretaries at doctors offices? Since when is working a job being a leech to society? leeches are people who sit around and do nothing.
But the "poor" DO have control over NOT getting pregnant and NOT having babies out of wedlock or one that they can't afford to raise properly. They DO have control over exercising WISE money management and NOT buying items that they don't need and can't afford.
And people who have bastard children and collect welfare are indeed leeches, especially the ones that have more than one bastard child when they clearly can't afford to raise them without governments handouts like welfare, Section 8 and food stamps. And they are especially leeches if those collecting these handouts have previous generations of family members also collecting the same. Clearly these families collecting government handouts do it as some family profession or skill.
As many others have posted in this thread: don't have children until you can afford to raise them on your own. This means waiting until being in a stable marriage, waiting until they have enough education and job skills to have a decent paying job, AND managing their collective spousal income in a smart way so that they have the money to raise them on their own.
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