What causes white flight (or flight of any sort)? (radical, Clinton, brainwashing)

[beasley106]

Honestly while white flight maybe motivated by purely bigoted racist mentalities in the past, I think nowadays it is primarily motivated by things like rising crime rates and failing schools which is also reasons why middle class people of other groups such as African Americans flee from certain cities/areas as well. For example in suburbs like Columbia (which is a wealthy suburb in Maryland located in between Washington DC and Baltimore) you don't really have issues with white flight even though there are large numbers of African Americans, Hispanics, and Asians (many of whom are middle/upper middle class as well) moving there because it still has one of the best school systems in the country, a healthy employment base nearby, and relatively low crime rates which means that the neighborhoods are still attractive. If you have an influx of say poor African Americans or Hispanics moving into an area, and the neighborhood is seeing things like rising crime rates and deteriorating schools with no other amenities to compensate for that loss unlike certain inner city neighborhoods, than anyone with money would probably think that it is better for them and their family to leave the area and seek housing elsewhere.

[MinivanDriver]

It's interesting to me how people are still talking about White Flight when the trend has perceptibly reversed in many metro areas, with whites beginning to move back towards town.

What is equally interesting is how those people are being perceived.

Selfie of white joggers in African American neighborhood sets off debate, and quest for understanding - LA Times

So on what hand, these folks are excoriated for leaving the inner city and are criticized when they return. I just wish people were consistent.

[artillery77]

Originally Posted by CHICAGOLAND92

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Even in some parts of Silicon Valley in northern California, whites are beginning to move from heavily Asian populated areas. This one really confounded me since, generally speaking, Asians are well integrated. They do well in school, have high incomes, etc. It's a recipe for a desirable neighborhood, but whites are leaving.
Article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB113236377590902105.html

I would love to hear from those that "flighted" and why. The good, the bad, the ugly. I am really looking forward to this debate!

I'm at ground zero of the Silicon Valley phenomena, but also lived in Chicago for many years. When I moved to Chicago, Logan Square was a no-go area unless you were desperate for drugs. The South Loop was dangerous and East Humboldt Park was just as dangerous as W. Humboldt Park, and nobody had hear of West Town.

My area in San Jose, once mostly White and Latino is now more than 70% Asian.

What I've concluded is that there is a natural tipping point for populations, but it is not accidental and it really isn't directly racial. It's the changing support of a community.

Here in San Jose, you have a phenomena that makes the area attractive. There are lots of other things about the area, but the nice thing was the economic boom from tech. The happy integrated farm community of 50,000 people in 1950 is over 1,000,000 today. So people are moving, but who benefits. In this case, you need STEM educated professionals, more than the world can provide. The climate is also ideal. (Russia, India)

But an area's attraction is just part of the equation. What would cause people to leave their homes? War (Vietnam), Persecution (Mynammar), Safeguarding assets from Communists (China).

Now we're still in generalities, nothing direct, but what is direct in a given neighborhood is that there's a balance between facilities to support a neighborhood and what the neighborhood wants/needs. After all, why doesn't Chicago have the largest Vietnamese population instead of San Jose.

A couple of years ago, there was a grocery store in the neighborhood that was built on a traditional American grocery store. A couple blocks away, a grocery store opened called Ranch 99 which is a traditional Chinese grocery store. We all like to eat, and we like food we are used too. So if I want to be be able to run to the store and pick up squab (pigeon), biluk (duck egg with unhatched duck inside), chicken feet and fish that were swimming 10 minutes ago, it's a very different store than one where I can go pick up a variety of cheeses, baked breads and porterhouse steaks.

So if one is important to me in a neighborhood, but the neighborhood can only support one, I want to move to a neighborhood that will support it.

Another difference. Entertainment. In Chicago, for St. Patties Day there were street dances, bars, dancing and singing all over. In this zip code, we have the shamrock shake from McDonalds. For Lunar New Year in Chicago, outside of going to one of the towns, you'd never know it came and went. Here it's a flurry of buying gifts, handing out envelopes, meeting in shopping areas and illegal fireworks. The corner bars you'd see in Chicago are instead vaping places or coffee houses in this part of San Jose.

How about religion? You'd like to live in a place with your house of worship. Schools, everyone wants good schools, but some cultures place higher importance on certain aspects of schooling, and to get the desired level of prioritization, you need to live in a culture that is similar. Style...you can go to any barbershop and get a cut, but there's definitely hair treatment differences for Asian, Caucasian and African hair.

Economy is a big one, but not necessarily so unless an economy changes dramatically. In Chicago, there used to be more manufacturing jobs. As those jobs move away, they are replaced with other types of jobs. The incumbent providers may face financial hardships if the area becomes economically depressed. Further, if the incumbent population has different skills, then an opportunity arises for labor from other areas. The new groups may not value the existing infrastructure and may start their own to match the changing landscape.

So if you find yourself in an area that used to have all of your wanted support systems and they start going away, people will move to where the support systems exist. Those homes will be filled in by people that are attracted to the new offerings being developed.

While it doesn't make for a shocking TV special like burning crosses or gang fights, I think the reality is much more gradual and benign. So for Logan Square, hipsters overtook the druggies, and then it went mainstream. For San Jose, techies have overtaken all, but are settling with the respective groups they are used too. I'm literally the only White person picking up a kid at our after-school. When I volunteered to chaperone an event at regular school, one parent came up to me rather bemused and said, well, mine's easy to spot, and indeed there was one blonde head of hair in the throng of kids, but she wanted to know who mine was. Most of the Whites remaining are old, or newly immigrated for jobs. The only hostility I ever get is when they see I'm with a proper traditional wife. (in a sea of engineers, there's a bit of a mismatch) Still, I need to drive a bit to get some of the comforts I grew up with, and one day I may tire of having to do that, and may move to someplace where they're just right there.

Anyway, that's why I think it happens. A series of individual decisions to move closer to the supports they believe are important.

[katharsis]

Two personal experiences:

1. From the ages of nine through seventeen (1963-1971), I lived in Hawthorne, California, home of the Beach Boys. In 1963, it was a modestly nice, working class, predominantly white community with perhaps 10% of the residents being Hispanic or non-white. (In 1966-7, there was only one black kid and perhaps 10 Hispanic kids in the entire eighth grade of about 120 kids in my school.) However, in just the following three years, many more people of Mexican descent moved in. Graffiti sprang up "everywhere", gangs became more of a presence, and suddenly, our modestly nice neighborhood did not look so nice. My parents moved out in 1973 (I had left home two years earlier), joining many other families who also "fled". Hawthorne is now 57% Hispanic, 23% Black, and only 11% White; and I have read two magazines articles that listed Hawthorne as the third and fourth worst city in the U.S.

2. I have now lived in the Columbine High School area near Littleton, Colorado for the better part of 30 years, and there is more of a racial mix here than there was in Hawthorne in 1966, and yet this mix seems to have remained stable in all that time. Although it is definitely predominantly white, there is a significantly larger percentage of non-whites here than there was in Hawthorne in 1963.

Why did whites leave Hawthorne, but have stayed put in Littleton? I am only guessing, but I think that the main driving force is economics. Using today's figures and if the markets were the same, the average Littleton home looks at least twice as nice, imo, as the average Hawthorne home. Back then, Hawthorne was affordable to lower income families, while a community similar to Littleton would not be. I think that it is true that, overall -- there certainly are many exceptions! -- lower income people take less pride in and put less time, money and care into taking care of their homes than middle and higher income people do, for very understandable reasons, and therefore, many families left for the nicer-looking communities they were used to, even if it meant moving to a smaller home or a "fixer upper".

Or, another theory: Perhaps (I don't know this, though) there has always been about the same "mix" in Littleton, so perhaps people have always just accepted the fact that this community has never been virtually all white, so growing up with other races and cultures have just accepted as the way things are.

(Of course, most of the above is just my guessing and opinion, and I could very well be wrong.)

[drinkthekoolaid]

I think people like being around people who are similar to themselves. There's nothing wrong about that.

I also think people will move if they feel their hard earned investment and neighborhood is going in a direction they do not agree with. If people moving into your neighborhood are bringing petty crime with them, loud music, bad attitudes. Not keeping up their properties I do,t care who they are but at some point in leaving whether they are the same race or culture as me I don't care. I work too hard to not be happy where I raise my family. I want them to enjoy a peaceful quiet and stable enviornment.

[craigiri]

So, the Asians are "winning" against the white folks in many of the top locales - and getting pushed out due to pricing (better workers earn more). A lot of economics at work here.

This also explains why whites are staying in Ohio, W. PA, KY and WV. Water seeks it's own level.

As an older gent of 62 - who employed many a person in my lifetime - I have seen it all. I actually had some white employees who worked REALLY hard. Now here's a generalization - they were all Irish!

I'm also a history nut so this makes sense. Anglos (of which Irish were not considered part of) in much of the USA simply didn't believe in getting their hands dirty. Obviously this is more in the South, Texas, etc.....but even in the North they would hire "free laborer" (free meaning wages were paid - supply and demand).

IMHO, the strong America that we know today was built in this fashion:

1. Puritan work ethic - of the original settlers. Of course, they were OK with genocide also but that is another story. This applies ONLY to the North as early settlers of the south had a completely different type of economy. They actually had to threaten to hang settlers in Jamestown if they didn't get to work!

2. Immigrants and emigrants - While the Brit may already have been somewhat spoiled, the German and the French (and others later) were not and were willing to slave (I use that word purposely since Germans actually worked much harder than slaves according to historians). Emigrants (from the east) were made up of the Mormons and Amish and others who went to settle the midwest and west.
In the west, Asians worked hard - in the east and elsewhere, Irish and others (later).

3. Free Stuff for White Skin - of course, lots of free land and even money was given out to induce settlement of the country. Resources were harvested - first financed by settlers then Wall Street and the Oil/Coal/Timber Barons.

4. War and strife based immigration - from Einstein to Von Braun, we harvested the best from around the world. This is the opposite of what Trump wants to do.

5. The final piece of the puzzle was probably the great migrations from the south to the north (black) for jobs - which went on right up until the end of WWII

White Flight? I was thinking about this recently walking around here where I winter in Florida. I must have heard 5 languages spoken within 10 minutes.....and this actually makes me feel GOOD. It must differ from those here who keep talking about being around people like themselves. Sure....I want the people I am around to be civilized, but what shade their skin is or what their background is doesn't matter much.

I played tennis with a group of about 20 guys - many of who were from other lands. A few from China and Indonesia were officers in the US Army (doctors). One was a guy from Singapore who imported machinery - the funny thing is he was more "White/American" than I was in his mannerisms. "hey, let's do get some brewskis" is something I usually don't hear from even my white friends!

As many have mentioned it seems we have forum members who are decades behind the times. The areas that the whites flew from are now super desirable and they are moving back there.....

[Revelation56]

Originally Posted by Bigfoot424

I was a victim if this bussing back in the 70's. We lived in the suburbs of Jacksonville, Fl and they experimented with the 7th grade. My family didn't move and it was a miserable year. We were bussed to an inner city school and the tension was so thick you could cut it with a knife. I got into a fistfight with another male (black) and the tension got even worse. 3 days before school was done for the year several older boys cornered me at my bus and threatened to knife me for beating up their little brother. The fight lasted all of 10 seconds before we were separated. The last 2 days of school my parents kept me home and I was told there were few, to no white kids in school. We did move to VA after this but it was job related for my parents.

I was raised in Jax and lived there for many years, leaving for economic and safety reasons in the mid 90s. I recall the bussing era well. The teachers were swapped around during the 70-71 year and we got some really good black teachers. Was told the really crappy white teachers were sent to the 'ghettos' after not enough volunteers stepped forward.

White Flight started in earnest on the NW side of Jax (Ribault, Soutel, Lake Park, etc.) in 1967. Where we lived in Arlington it didn't start until the late 1980s. Thinking the area we lived in at Arlingwood is all black/hispanic now. Blacks were bussed in for the first time during the 71-72 school year.

While we had problems with the hostile blacks we had a bigger problem with the influx of whites-jews from the NE US who began showing up in large numbers beginning in 69-70. This latter group was composed with many bullies and people with chips on their shoulders looking for trouble where there was none. This group tended to 'be cool' with the blacks, often taking on their worst traits. Our high school reunions have always been sparsely attended for this reason.

I retired recently and find myself reminiscing about my Jax years. Unfortunately, my final years there were difficult financially and all too often encountered dysfunctional (understatement) 'neighbors' while having some excellent neighbors at the same time. I moved to the Carolinas and everything turned around almost immediately although this area is starting to undergo some hard times - glad I retired when I did.

[davidt1]

Originally Posted by southernnaturelover

Where I live there's definately a pattern happening lately, older white people passing or going into nursing homes, their house goes on the market and gets bought by blacks, then shortly after that surrounding houses also go up for sale as the remaining whites try to get out.

I'll be honest here, there are a lot of things black people do that just simply annoy most white people...

(1) Generally, blacks are noisier than most whites, I own rental houses in black neighborhoods, and I can often hear people talking in yards 2 or 3 houses up the street.

(2) Black people like bright colors and will often paint their houses bright yellow or even purple. This is a BIG turn off to most white people I know.

(3) Black people often park their cars sideways across the front lawn instead of in the driveway, I'm assuming to show off their 24" rims. The lawn doesn't last long, and eventually turns to bare dirt due to the vehicle traffic.

(4) Black people often have large get togethers and BBQs in the front yard (usually results in #1 listed above).

(5) Many blacks have never owned a home before, and do not understand basic home maintenance. They do not understand things like making sure gutters are kept clean, or making sure the walkway gets edged, etc..

(6) Blacks tend to have those loud boom systems in their cars that rattle windows as they go by.

(7) Blacks tend to hang out on the front porch a lot, it doesn't matter the weather or the time of day, there's almost always someone out there. I know some will say it's a silly compliant, but it looks trashy to see the front porch always cluttered up with plastic lawn chairs.

Now, I know this isn't every black person, I know some who live in very nice well kept homes, but unfortunately where I live it's not the norm. I also know some trashy white people, but those people usually aren't eager to move into well kept neighborhoods. I'm sure many of the things I listed above are why a lot of newer subdivisions have HOAs, they won't admit it, but it's true.

Some of the points you made also apply to people who are in a lower economic class. Trashy behavior is trashy behavior regardless of race.

[jimrich]

What causes white flight (or flight of any sort)?

A frightened EGO!

[Hemlock140]

Our city of 60,000 was 88% white in 2000, now down to 74%. There has been no white flight. We have grown,with many new home developments, and many of the newcomers have been Asian, mostly from India. We have 25% foreign-born residents, many from Europe too though, that are white. We only had 34,000 people back then, but despite almost doubling in size we still have very low crime and great schools.