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What you don't understand, and never will in all probability, is that there is no need to "turn to" anything. The universe and planet we live in and on is a place of sublime completeness and beauty. There is nothing "bigger" than you. There is nothing "beside" you. There is nothing "grander" than you.
While I of course agree with your general sentiment, I would add on the bolded that there is something greater than human beings, and it is the universe itself. It existed long before us and will probably exist long after us.
To answer the question, one only needs to look at social stats in less religious countries : less homicides, more literacy, longer life expectancy, etc.
Religion might be a good thing for some individuals, everyone has the right to believe what they want, however naive it might be, but it is not, in my opinion, a good thing on a society scale.
Quote:
The survey concluded that "high levels of organic atheism are strongly correlated with high levels of societal health, such as low homicide rates, low poverty rates, low infant mortality rates, and low illiteracy rates, as well as high levels of educational attainment, per capita income, and gender equality. Most nations characterized by high degrees of individual and societal security have the highest rates of organic atheism, and conversely, nations characterized by low degrees of individual and societal security have the lowest rates of organic atheism. In some societies, particularly Europe, atheism is growing. However, throughout much of the world -- particularly nations with high birth rates -- atheism is barely discernable."
Hard to argue with stats, now, is it? So while it might feel good for YOU to believe, for society as a whole, atheism or at least indifference to religion is much more productive.
I purposely didn't adress the "does god exist or not" part, even if my opinion should be clear, because I don't think that anyone on this thread would be convinced one way or another and I like to use good of my time.
That's why I stayed on facts about the prevalence of religion or not.
That personal thing between you and your god is faith. Religion is a different animal. I'm all for faith, but organized religion is more polarizing than politics.
I have to agree so so so so much. I've never been to church, I pray occasionally when im in trouble or need but I always have faith. I think the world would be better without religion but worse without faith. Faith is something we all need.
Of course interpretation matters more. It reveals the true meaning of the text, and the underlying message that isn't obvious when just looking at the words.
There are many examples of eye-witnesses of God during modern times, from people who have experienced his grace, to people who seen his kingdom in near-death experiences to the people of the Philippines following Typhoon Haiyan, who have clearly witnessed his grace. Testimony is still hard evidence just like facts and statistics.
Just look at how the universe is designed and fine-tuned for life. Just look at the patterns of the universe, and it is clear that it is designed by God to be suitable for life.
As often happens this conversation has become "The emperor's new clothes". If you don't know god you can't know god. Good comes from god, even after a country-devastating catastrophe which killed over 6000 people that of course no one attributes to god. Did those 6000 clearly witness his grace? I have to chuckle a bit when I see the only person in a development who didn't lose their home to a tornado say things like "god was really watching over me". I guess the 154 homeowners whose homes were leveled weren't on god's radar? People say god exists because how else would they explain the white light? Blah, blah, blah. Still absolutely no proof, just assumptions based on an assumption.
Your view of interpretation needs some work. It's very circular in that you say only those who understand and believe the texts can understand them.
The problem with religion is that people have this assumption that they are all true or they are all false. They all seem to go against the other making it hard to determine what is right and what is wrong. If their is a God then he can not be the author of so much confusion. Would that be the basis for not believing in God or in organized religion?
What if the Church that Jesus Christ organized changed after he attoned for our sins and was ressurected. What if over time, men changed the truth around and made it hard to understand? I do believe in the Bible, but only as far as it is translated correctly. Remember that English is not the language of the Bible. It had to be translated. What would happen if people that were running the Church decided to translate it incorrectly or to change certain meanings. People like Martin Luther noticed that and spoke about it. Churches were created beased on the teaching of people like Martin Luther. Still can these people claim a problem of interpretation exists and fix the problem on their own? If the authourity to act in the name of Jesus Christ is gone how can a person bring it back by saying a problem exists?
I would be so bold as to say that any church that broke away from the church that claims to be the original church can not be the correct church. I would also say that a church that claims to be the original church but has changed doctrine and went against what the Bible says is also not the correct church. I would say to you that the origianal church went against the teachings of Jesus Christ and fell away. With that falling away the truth was taken from the earth causing so much confusion in the world. Many tried to turn back the fall but they were not authorized to do so. The only way for religion to redeam itself is if the original holders of the Priesthood and the Authourity to run the church were to restore what was taken. A restoration would have to happen.
I am here to tell you that a restoration had taken place. In 1820 Joseph Smith had the same questions and observations as many here have. He read the Bible every day and found that the religions of the day seemed to contradict each other and what is written in the Bible. One day he was reading in James 1:5 which reads. "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him" Joseph Smith stated in his history that "Never did any passage of scripture come with more power to the heart of man than this did at this time to mine. It seemed to enter with great force into every feeling of my heart. I reflected on it again and again, knowing that if any person needed wisdom from God, I did; for how to act I did not know, and unless I could get more wisdom than I then had, I would never know; for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible.
My thoughts are that if you really want to know, put the Bible to the test. Ask God with real intent. Ask if it is true. Ask specific questions. It may take some time. For those that want to know they will put in the time to ask and find out. I know for me that I have asked that question and have found out that God is real. That his Son Jesus Christ did live, set up His church here on earth and restored that Church to the earth after his ressurection. I know that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God and that he helped in the restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the earth. If you are willing and want to end the confusion that many see as a real part of life, then you to can ask that question to see if the truth was restored to the earth.
You are woefully ignorant. My guess is that you have some type of brain disorder. Just because you can't grasp the concept that there is a higher power, that is infinitely more intelligent than the so called smartest human to ever walk the Earth, doesn't mean He does not exist. Just because you might possibly understand some of His scientific laws, doesn't mean you invented scientific laws or are capable of creating life or are anywhere near qualified to refute religion. You are not a Theologian. No, I did not major in science but, I did major in something else, which you probably don't have 1/100th of the the knowledge that I have relative to that subject. That fact that you would try to refute the entire field of Theology, is a testament to your ignorance and pure hate. Yes that does qualify you as a quack and crock. Bottom line, stick to science. Stay out of religion. YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED.
If you are as "intelligent" (lol) as you claim, then, why don't you CREATE a universe? Show us all how wrong we are and how smart you are? If you can't do it, then, you truly need to shutup and go away.
Wow. Quite the representative of a patient and tolerant God. Let me guess, you're an Old Testament kind of guy.
Last edited by HarryWho?; 01-12-2014 at 10:31 AM..
As often happens this conversation has become "The emperor's new clothes". If you don't know god you can't know god. Good comes from god, even after a country-devastating catastrophe which killed over 6000 people that of course no one attributes to god. Did those 6000 clearly witness his grace? People say god exists because how else would they explain the white light? Blah, blah, blah. Still absolutely no proof, just assumptions based on an assumption.
Your view of interpretation needs some work. It's very circular in that you say only those who understand and believe the texts can understand them.
Not sure why having 6,000 die is a bad thing. Let me explain.
We lived with God as spirit children before we came here to the earth. The problem is that we had no understanding of true joy, pain, success or suffering. God presented a plan to us that would allow us to learn those things. This earth was built for us. we were then allowed to come here to earth to get a Physical body. We were also in a postion to learn good from bad, joy from sorrow. This is the place to prepare to meet God. Eventually we will also die and get to go back to that God that gave us life. During the Second coming of the Saivior, Jesus Christ, those that have died will be resurected, meaning that their Spirits will enter perfect Physical bodies. We will also be judged for how we acted here in life. Jesus spoke of his Fathers house having many mansions. All are differant. Depending on how we did here we will recieve a blessing and get to spend forever living in Heaven. The Bible talks about differant Kingdoms. The Celestial is the highest kingdom and is where our Heavenly Father lives. That is the place for all those that have accomplished what they were supposed to do here on earth. Others will enter lesser Kingdoms. Very few people will have no Kingdom and live in Outer Darkness, This is the place that the Devil lives at and their is no glory there.
For those that die they are allready on their way to learning their outcome. Small children that die have no worries as they can not sin.
I believe in God and that he is extraterrestrial because first he created the heavens where he lived he also did not mention when and how long it took to make. Second I believe that we are to extraterrestrial spiritually to be exact because if he is not of earth and he pull are flesh out the ground and we were not breathing until he breath life into man than that make extraterrestrial and our flesh just clothing
What evidence are you basing this on? Because reasonable people don't derive a belief about something without first seeing evidence to support it. We have an entire body of science, mountains of evidence, about the universe, and life, chemical and biological processes, etc, that we can use as support. So, what is your opinion based upon? What evidence have you seen points that God made the heavens and pulled us out of the dirt, and breathed life into us? Where is it ?
Religion is a set of rituals, beliefs, and traditions which provide simple and bite-sized answers to difficult, yet thought-provoking questions.
There are some questions out there that no one can answer- Why do humans exist? Why does the universe exist? Where did it come from? Does the universe extend outwards forever? What happens when we die? How do extremely complex phenomena occur in nature? A few people sit down and seek the true answers to these questions, even if there might be none. Most people, however, can't stand to have these questions unanswered, so they turn to religion, inhibiting the intellectual progress and development that might arise from true contemplation.
If the answer to a question is unknown, which is the better procedure?
A) Seek the answer to the question.
B) Make up the answer and declare it to be factual.
Applying this to the origin of the universe. At present, we do not know the origin of the universe. Is it better to attempt to discover the answer? Or just make up an answer, declare the answer to be a fact, and call it a day.
You are woefully ignorant. My guess is that you have some type of brain disorder. Just because you can't grasp the concept that there is a higher power, that is infinitely more intelligent than the so called smartest human to ever walk the Earth, doesn't mean He does not exist. Just because you might possibly understand some of His scientific laws, doesn't mean you invented scientific laws or are capable of creating life or are anywhere near qualified to refute religion. You are not a Theologian. No, I did not major in science but, I did major in something else, which you probably don't have 1/100th of the the knowledge that I have relative to that subject. That fact that you would try to refute the entire field of Theology, is a testament to your ignorance and pure hate. Yes that does qualify you as a quack and crock. Bottom line, stick to science. Stay out of religion. YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED.
If you are as "intelligent" (lol) as you claim, then, why don't you CREATE a universe? Show us all how wrong we are and how smart you are? If you can't do it, then, you truly need to shutup and go away.
No-one invented scientific laws, they were discovered. What was invented was the math to understand such laws.
The burden of proof lies on you, not me, to prove the existence of God. All I claim is that there is no evidence for a God, religion has provided no evidence for God, and the Universe does not need a God to exist. Therefore, since there is no God, no-one should be forced to obey the ridiculous laws and morals of some fairy tail. Let me make this clear to you, I could not care less whether you choose to worship God, Zeus, Satan, Allah or any other deity of your liking. That is your business. However, as long as your kind continues to try to force their belief down our throats by forcing the government to discriminate against homosexuals, take away the rights of women away, and impede the progress of science among other things, I'll continue to expose religion as the fraud it is. If that offends you, thats not my problem, religion, like anything else, is not immune to challenge and criticism despite your delicate sensibilities.
Your final statement shows how ignorant you are of science. Science teaches us that plants use energy from the sun to make their own food but just because we know how the process works, doesn't means humans will suddenly be able to use sun light to make their own food inside their bodies. The same logic applies to the Universe. Physics tells us it is possible for something to come out of nothing, that doesn't mean humans will ever be able to create something out of nothing. Science allows us to understand the workings of the Universe, not control it, and science never claimed to be able to control the Universe anyway. Please stop making such preposterous statements because even I am getting second hand embarrassment for you.
Last edited by Astorian31; 01-12-2014 at 02:32 PM..
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