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Feminism started off so well, now its another F word.
The world has forgotten what it used to mean - equal rights.
Saying young women have the right to be flagrantly sexual per Miley Cyrus is correct, they do
The worrisome part is when oozing sexuality becomes mandatory, per Madonna, Britney, Beyonce, Christina, Pink etc etc on and on, while men get to stand on stage, keep their clothes on, and sing to/about nameless half naked women writhing around like so many snakes.
There is a massive double standard as usual. Just turn on your evening news chances are you'll have yet another pretty young blonde newsreader doing the dull stories while the unglamorous male dinosaur beside her gets the headlines, the yammer, and fifteen times her salary for doing nothing more than showing up every day.
So much for feminism.
There are differences between the sexes, differences giving us a genetic disposition of attraction to one another. That's as far as it goes.
So some people play this up, "sex sells" we are told. I wonder if with our American cultural history we have not unintentionally hyped up interest in sex, a taboo subject for many here in the states.
Sexuality is confusing when you are young, (So are a lot of other things when you are young.) when you worry about dating and finding someone. Young artists have this large audience when sex is mysterious or overly interesting. It's all very human and can be understood, it's nothing out of the ordinary.
Both men and women can be sexual, flirty, and still solve the worlds problems. Our collective mentality must change so that we all make our environment conducive to personal growth, to success. Sexuality is part of our lives.
Sexuality is part of every society. Good choices and accountability for our actions is what we should place our energy on.
Men take their clothes of on stage also. Their are plenty of terrific successful women in show business that do not play the sex card... Adele, Natalie Maines, Kelly Clarkson, Yukimi Nagano, etc...
How do you solve the problem? What will quell your fear? Burkas? Ban on Sexy Ads by committee voted in by your peers? What is your solution?
I offer solutions, and the problem I see is not the women but those dolts. You cannot live your life in fear, those people that objectify are wrong, so you want everyone to stop being sexy because some person does not have any manners or tact when interviewing or talking or some antisocial recluse objectifies people?
The only solution I see is making the person that perpetrates that behavior aware that it's stupid and wrong, and as for the trolls online, they will say anything to cause emotional reactions.
I think your stress over commercials/ads is petty.
You definitely get it (!) and that was a great response to a rude, insulting post (which IMO often damages effective communicating/human relations even more than objectification). The last sentence is spot on.
What did I say? Look-at-the-comments-by-the-many-men. You know, youtube videos tend to have comments. The comments suggesting this dead girl should have sucked their c*cks while she was alive. The comments calling her a sl*t for holding a baby (suggesting out of wedlock mother or something). So yes, it was a very moving tribute and what did many of these guys focus on? T&A, T&A, T&A. Bravo.
BTW, I also read at least four comments by men that criticized the obscene comments and/or praised the video. For balance' sake, that should be mentioned. I only read a small number and I would guess there are more of them.
You definitely get it (!) and that was a great response to a rude, insulting post (which IMO often damages effective communicating/human relations even more than objectification). The last sentence is spot on.
You both have reading comprehension issues. I did not say he IS petty or is being petty. He assuming pettiness on the part of others (those who he thinks are jealous, don't like sexy etc) when that is not the issue. It runs much deeper than that. It's quite clear that you only skim posts so you have no room to charge ineffective communication.
My mother was a real feminist back in the 50s through to the 80s. She was driven and was very successful. There is a difference between real feminists and those that we have today. My mother NEVER blamed males for anything. You can not keep a good man down - nor can you keep a good WOMAN down.
BTW, I also read at least four comments by men that criticized the obscene comments and/or praised the video. For balance' sake, that should be mentioned. I only read a small number and I would guess there are more of them.
Of course there are men that take issue with it. That is not the point. The point is we have a sexual culture that fosters the harmful mentality found in those comments. That can be seen in this very thread. It's burkas, as the OP put it, or photoshopped Barbie. It's two sides of the same coin-coomodifying T&A.
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In my opinion feminists have lost their ways. They seem to concentrate on anything in the media that portrays sexy women. Victoria secret, Carls Jr commercials, cheerleaders etc. Sexuality is an asset for both men and women, why have a problem with that?
Granted, there are people who think that women, for some strange reason, are less capable of logic or reason or whatever mental ability. Those people are not critical thinkers, and are blind to a self evident truth, that women are just as capable as men except where testosterone gives an advantage to the latter. An advantage that is less and less important nowadays.
Why the issue? We'll I see many of my lady friends judge one another for being sexy, as if that's wrong. The way you dress has no bearing on your intelligence, they are not connected. Women's freedom of choice is what's important, and the variety of their choices should be cherished. I love the differences between men and women, because I think women are the most beautiful things on earth. I love everything that differentiates them from a man, the animal kingdom responds in the same way, most female and male animals have considerable differences.
So I say let's let every woman choose, and feminists please stop your crusade against sexy!
I have read through the responses but what I would like to know OP is where are these feminists who are crusading against sexy, the feminists that have lost their way? Where are you hearing/seeing this feminist crusade against the media because for the life of me I wouldn't know these groups existed if I didn't google them and read their websites.
Of course there are men that take issue with it. That is not the point. The point is we have a sexual culture that fosters the harmful mentality found in those comments. That can be seen in this very thread. It's burkas, as the OP put it, or photoshopped Barbie. It's two sides of the same coin-coomodifying T&A.
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I just wanted to put it in a balanced perspective that there are still a lot of concerned guys out there as well. There can be more than one point to a topic and that was mine.
There are no reading comprehension issues, just your intolerance of some of us that have the slightest different viewpoint/interpretation. Please realize that there are seldon any issues here on city data where there is unanimous agreement and that should help you cope with those who have a right to express a different opinion the next time. I choose to blame the individuals instead of sexual culture. Heck, there have been pinup models going back to Marilyn Monroe, Jayne Russell and Betty Grable (objectification I suppose, right?). Playboy started in the 1950's. However, young men had more class and behaved better for the most part. I would be more troubled by the "thug" culture with swear words in nearly every sentence being OK with some of our young people. That takes place too often whether the topic is sexual or not. The individuals are responsible.
I do agree those derogatory comments about the video were reprehensible as you pointed out.
I just wanted to put it in a balanced perspective that there are still a lot of concerned guys out there as well. There can be more than one point to a topic and that was mine.
There are no reading comprehension issues, just your intolerance of some of us that have the slightest different viewpoint/interpretation. Please realize that there are seldon any issues here on city data where there is unanimous agreement and that should help you cope with those who have a right to express a different opinion the next time. I choose to blame the individuals instead of sexual culture. Heck, there have been pinup models going back to Marilyn Monroe, Jayne Russell and Betty Grable (objectification I suppose, right?). Playboy started in the 1950's. However, young men had more class and behaved better for the most part. I would be more troubled by the "thug" culture with swear words in nearly every sentence being OK with some of our young people. That takes place too often whether the topic is sexual or not. The individuals are responsible.
I do agree those derogatory comments about the video were reprehensible as you pointed out.
Nonetheless, thanks for sharing your views.
My only point here is to cast a light on why some people take issue with sexual objectification, not to offer solutions to thwart sexual objectification, not to make charges, but to try to understand the underpinnings. The female body has been commodified since the dawn of human history. It will never change. It's right up there with death and taxes. I don't think there is any disagreement there, correct? It simply is. The only disagreement here, which I believe is more of a misunderstanding, is that the assumption in the OP is that people are being petty or puritanical. I think, again, this issue runs much deeper for feminists. There is good reason to take issue with sexual objectification even if there is not a direct solution*. We know it harms girls. These days it harms guys as well. But, as parents of girls we have to be mindful that we make sure she learns that she is more than her body. That her personal self worth and value as a human being is not dependent on either keeping it wrapped up for sale (ala burka, virginity, etc) or becoming something she can never naturally be (ala photoshopped victoria secret model). I don't see the problem in acknowledging these realities. I do see a problem with confusing them with sexuality, though.
*The only thing I can think of that could be a solution to our bizarre sexual worldview (here in the states at least) that I have personally experienced is sexual and body freedom. For example, burning man, rainbow, heck even nudist events. These are spaces where everyone can get their sexy on, but ime it's pretty equal between men and women and there is a desensitization to socially programmed commodifying of the human body. Follow?
I have read through the responses but what I would like to know OP is where are these feminists who are crusading against sexy, the feminists that have lost their way? Where are you hearing/seeing this feminist crusade against the media because for the life of me I wouldn't know these groups existed if I didn't google them and read their websites.
Some members of my family, and people I know in the southwest. There are blogs like "about-face".
I meet many young women and they are traumatized with anxiety and stress due to unrealistic expectations of other peoples behavior. It's like they stress over what other women wear, they also stress about what they wear because they fear they might "contribute" , etc. I have even met women that are not comfortable with their feminine features...
Unintended consequences.
There is no way to control other people, and our personal choices should give us enough satisfaction to live in peace. I would want all the women in my life to be proud they are women without having some other woman judge them for what they wear or because they like Victoria secret. I also don't want them to live in fear. I want peace for them.
The photoshopping thing is just plain dumb, I don't like it, and it sure adds fuel to this perception of evil objectifying men everywhere looking for a heartless doll.
All the men I hang out with are not even close to these trolls and objectifiers, I see a bunch of guys with great relationships that love their partners and are happy they are comfortably sexy!
"Feminism gone wrong" is a title to talk about the issues, and the best explanation I have from this thread is that feminists do not want the media to contribute to men's objectification of women. I say that all that does not matter, it didn't matter to the queen of England in England's empire days.... She was a woman in charge of a country that basically took over the whole world for a good while. She did it at a time where women could not even vote. You can't control other peoples behavior personally, you can't stress over things that are not in your direct control, but you can voice your opinion, debate it and with reason win people over.
Last edited by Werone; 01-24-2014 at 09:13 PM..
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