Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I notice not too many Jews are farmers or mechanical engineers or IT admins. They are literally people of the Book/word. They deal mainly in writing or trading contracts- programming is another thing they are good at. Anything with letters, and zero labor.
When it comes to building a car or a house or a server farm or having a bumper crop for the year, I wouldn't recommend a Jew. That's a different kind of talent. But I'm glad they like doing that stuff. If that's their goal in life, to trade items and write stuff on paper, then good for them.
My cousins are architects, and have their own well though of firm in Boston. When my grandparents were kids the families bread and butter business was plumbing supply, my great grandfather could do all of his own plumbing if he chose.
Sure we have more than our fair share of lawyers and doctors, but make no mistake, there are people who are jewish who are successful in many, many fields. Pretending that being jewish makes you unqualified to build a house or do physical labor is the worst kind of stereotyping.
Neither have I ever met a jew who drinks to excess if at all.
This is a myth and a dangerous one. My own grandfather struggled with alcoholism, as do many Russian Jews. When we pretend being jewish precludes alcohol or any type of addiction we are doing a disservice to those people, and we are making them less likely to seek help if they need it.
Second, this notion of "surviving" is one that has come up multiple times in this thread. Was never discussed as part of our heritage growing up. Now granted my family has been here since the 1880s, so we were not in Europe when the holocaust occurred. We only ever heard growing up that you were expected to do your best and no excuses when you didn't. But there was no "street smarts" involved growing up in the 'burbs in Massachusetts.
I want to comment on a few things. First, I have learned a lot in this thread about the Jewish community. And you have used the word insular to describe what others have consistently noted; i.e., that the Jewish Community looks after one another. In other words, they are unified, not diverse, as you pointed out. Though they seemingly preach diversity to others. And I think it is almost self evident that unity represents strength far, far moreso than diversity (divided).
The above statement is one of the problems with calling a people as diverse as those who are Jewish by one name and then making generalizations.
Not all, or even most, jewish communities are "insular". Lots of what is been spoken about that is only applicable to the Hasidic and some other fundamental jewish groups. I am Ashkenazi, as are most jewish people in this country. We regularly marry outside our faith. In my fathers generation, he, his sisters, all of their first cousins, etc all married non-jewish people. One of the things my group of jewish people are is very accepting, so when they married non-jews, the spouses and especially the children were brought up in that jewish culture because it is so accepting.
On my moms side I am irish catholic, on a personal level my catholic family has always been much less accepting of my jewish family than the other way around. So in my family at least, most of us have chosen to identify more strongly with our jewish heritage even if it is just culturally as opposed to religiously due to its very inclusiveness.
Quote:
Third, indeed, they have long anointed themselves -- at least, I don't know anyone else that has said so -- as God's chosen people. And I note that to make this point and ask a question (of anyone): "I never understood or read anything sensible as to why Hitler so hated the Jews. I do know that Hitler proclaimed the Aryan race to be the Master race, and I'm wondering if he simply hated the Jews for proclaiming that they were God's chosen people?
Does anyone have any factual knowledge or real insight here?
I suggest you read up about some of the factions of christianity including seventh day adventists, mormons, and so on. Heck even many roman catholics, especially Pope Paul the IV, talk about themselves as the "people of god". Is that really that different?
The above statement is one of the problems with calling a people as diverse as those who are Jewish by one name and then making generalizations.
Not all, or even most, jewish communities are "insular". Lots of what is been spoken about that is only applicable to the Hasidic and some other fundamental jewish groups. I am Ashkenazi, as are most jewish people in this country. We regularly marry outside our faith. In my fathers generation, he, his sisters, all of their first cousins, etc all married non-jewish people. One of the things my group of jewish people are is very accepting, so when they married non-jews, the spouses and especially the children were brought up in that jewish culture because it is so accepting.
On my moms side I am irish catholic, on a personal level my catholic family has always been much less accepting of my jewish family than the other way around. So in my family at least, most of us have chosen to identify more strongly with our jewish heritage even if it is just culturally as opposed to religiously due to its very inclusiveness.
I suggest you read up about some of the factions of christianity including seventh day adventists, mormons, and so on. Heck even many roman catholics, especially Pope Paul the IV, talk about themselves as the "people of god". Is that really that different?
I laid out a query regarding Hitler and his hatred of Jews, which I clearly articulated. I said: "I never understood or read anything sensible as to why Hitler so hated the Jews. I do know that Hitler proclaimed the Aryan race to be the Master race, and I'm wondering if he simply hated the Jews for proclaiming that they were God's chosen people?
Does anyone have any factual knowledge or real insight here?
Unfortunately, your response deflects away from my query and is not at all helpful in answering what I was querying about. I really am interested in understanding the reason(s) behind Hitler's hatred and am not at all interested in anything that deflects away from obtaining that understanding.
I am married to a person who comes from a culturally Jewish background and I attended an elementary school that was 3/4s Jewish.
1. Jewish people value education from pre-school on. Some ways that they implement this include the following - destination vacations with an educational theme rather than theme parks. They will go to Disney once, but no yearly pilgrimages.
2. Summer camp or other structured activities. Children loose educational ground during the Summer. Keeping them structured and among like minded, educationally oriented people, fuels this.
3. College. Four Years of it. No questions asked. Most Jews (not so much DHs family) also opt for a college that is residential, as opposed to commuter.
They will even get a mediocre student into a 4 year college. Usually with good results.
4. They don't stop parenting at 18.
5. No teenage pregnancies. They generally derail a child's life.
6. They help their children financially - no questions asked. And in turn, their children help their elderly parents.
7. There is no "everyman for himself", "sink or swim" "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" attitude when it comes to children.
8. Similarly, they expect a lot out of their children in terms of achievement. They generally want a certain type of achievement - white collar professional.
I've never heard a Jewish parent say "whatever makes you happy" and let their kids go to a trade and technical school instead of college.
If it seems that there isn't a lot of wiggle room in a Jewish family, that's true.
There you have it. We have raised out two this way. It works.
I notice not too many Jews are farmers or mechanical engineers or IT admins. They are literally people of the Book/word. They deal mainly in writing or trading contracts- programming is another thing they are good at. Anything with letters, and zero labor.
Jews were barred by law in most countries from owning land, and they sometimes had to flee pogroms quickly with whatever they could carry. They adapted to these circumstances by developing portable skills.
Nevertheless, I have a friend whose father was a chicken and dairy farmer in the Catskills, driving the tractor and supervising the milking of the cows until he was in his 80's. They are great people and everyone in the family would give you the shirt off their backs. My friend's family is very, very far from being wealthy, although my friend has built a successful karate school and because of his hard work I believe he'll be wealthy someday if he's not already.
I laid out a query regarding Hitler and his hatred of Jews, which I clearly articulated. I said: "I never understood or read anything sensible as to why Hitler so hated the Jews. I do know that Hitler proclaimed the Aryan race to be the Master race, and I'm wondering if he simply hated the Jews for proclaiming that they were God's chosen people?
Does anyone have any factual knowledge or real insight here?
Unfortunately, your response deflects away from my query and is not at all helpful in answering what I was querying about. I really am interested in understanding the reason(s) behind Hitler's hatred and am not at all interested in anything that deflects away from obtaining that understanding.
Moderator cut: snip
Look if it was the use of the idea of "chosen people" than Hitler would have had the same issue with seventh day adventists, catholics, and so one.
Look if it was the use of the idea of "chosen people" than Hitler would have had the same issue with seventh day adventists, catholics, and so one.
Get it yet?
I don't know what Hitler knew or thought he knew. Moreover, I have zero recall that he rounded up 7th day Adventists or Catholics en masse for shipment to concentration camps as he did with Jews. What I do know is that somewhere in the area of 6 million Jews were murdered by Hitler and his henchmen, and I've never understood why.
As regards my logic skills, I am smart enough not to project from what I do not know as you have done by stating "if it was the use of the idea of "chosen people" than Hitler would have had the same issue with seventh day adventists, catholics, and so one.
Your statement assumes what Hitler would have done. Assuming what you wish is prove is a logical fallacy (a reasoning error) known as "begging the question" or in Latin it is known as,"petitio principii".
People misunderstand the concept of the chosen people to mean given a free pass and favored. In reality jews were chosen to bear more responsibility, adhere to more extensive laws, and be a barometer of the conditions in the world. Look up the noahide laws, similar to the ten commandments.
Hitler hated the jews because me was a failure in life and because he saw the success of the jewish community. Germany was struggling at the time with extensive money problems and it was an easy thing to convince people that a group who was a bit dissimilar could be targeted and their wealth redistributed.
People misunderstand the concept of the chosen people to mean given a free pass and favored. In reality jews were chosen to bear more responsibility, adhere to more extensive laws, and be a barometer of the conditions in the world. Look up the noahide laws, similar to the ten commandments.
Hitler hated the jews because me was a failure in life and because he saw the success of the jewish community. Germany was struggling at the time with extensive money problems and it was an easy thing to convince people that a group who was a bit dissimilar could be targeted and their wealth redistributed.
(Tip of my hat)
As I recall, envy is one of the seven deadly sins.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
