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Actually, being a vegetarian still results in the mass slaughter of animals. What do you think happens to all those male offspring of milk cows? And the baby roosters that are done away with because they won't grow up to lay eggs?
I considered vegetarianism a long time ago, but when I realized that for true ethical "rightness" I would need to become a vegan, I gave the idea up.
I do see veganism as the most ethical choice, but I'm not willing to go that far for moral perfection. I live my life under the premise that empathy is the greatest moral guidepost. The question of "Would you want someone to do it to you?" pretty much solves any ethical dilemma. But I'm not at the point where I'm prepared to extend that to farm animals. I do go out of my way to buy ethically raised meat for my home cooking as much as my budget will allow, but I'm at peace with the personal selfishness that allows me to continue to eat meat.
It's similar to the question of why I don't donate all of my disposable income to children living in the Third World. I don't NEED so many of the things I have in my life - why haven't I tried to improve (or even SAVE) the lives of people who have so much less than me? I got a hefty tax rebate this year - I could probably buy a ton of medical supplies and ship them off to Somalia. Instead, I'm putting in a fence in my front yard, because I want - note, I did not say NEED - to do some landscaping. I'm at peace with that.
Being a vegan does not cause "the mass slaughter of animals". The meat and dairy industry does this. With male calves and male chicks.
That is not an opinion. It's a fact. Male chicks are ground alive or gassed. Calves live a terrible, brief and sad life before they are turned into "veal".
People can eat meat. It is not agaist the law. However, they can stop making nervous jokes about it - "PETA - People Eating Tasty Animals" and all of that other nonsense.
They can also stop acting as though animals do not feel pain or sadness. They do.
Everyone is not going to become a vegetarian in my lifetime - or perhaps ever. Probably never.
However, kind people can adopt the position of "harm reductionist". If some animals are raised to be killed, can they be killed and raised in a more humane manner?
Are people willing to spend a bit more money to know that an animal was not miserably all of it's like or killed in a horrific manner?
Can we agree that grinding chicks alive is unspeakably evil? Can we agree that raping and beating cows and pigs is unacceptable and inhumane?
Gestational crates? Boiling animals alive?
Seriously, people ARE eating less meat every year. Every college and university that I know of serves a vegan or vegetarian option. The US military serves vegetarian and vegan MREs. (Meals Ready to Eat)
So young people are eating less meat and demanding that non meat options are available.
However, there has been a backlash among some. Mostly people of my generation, who long for the good old days.
I am not a vegan. And I'm not always a complete vegetarian. (although I never eat meat or poultry) However, I still think that animals should be treated in a humane fashion.
As a society, being against factory farms, needless animal experimentation (pretty much all of it) circus, rodeo and fur - would seem like a reasonable direction to take.
Being a vegan does not cause "the mass slaughter of animals". The meat and dairy industry does this. With male calves and male chicks.
That is not an opinion. It's a fact. Male chicks are ground alive or gassed. Calves live a terrible, brief and sad life before they are turned into "veal".
People can eat meat. It is not agaist the law. However, they can stop making nervous jokes about it - "PETA - People Eating Tasty Animals" and all of that other nonsense.
They can also stop acting as though animals do not feel pain or sadness. They do.
Everyone is not going to become a vegetarian in my lifetime - or perhaps ever. Probably never.
However, kind people can adopt the position of "harm reductionist". If some animals are raised to be killed, can they be killed and raised in a more humane manner?
Are people willing to spend a bit more money to know that an animal was not miserably all of it's like or killed in a horrific manner?
Can we agree that grinding chicks alive is unspeakably evil? Can we agree that raping and beating cows and pigs is unacceptable and inhumane?
Gestational crates? Boiling animals alive?
Seriously, people ARE eating less meat every year. Every college and university that I know of serves a vegan or vegetarian option. The US military serves vegetarian and vegan MREs. (Meals Ready to Eat)
So young people are eating less meat and demanding that non meat options are available.
However, there has been a backlash among some. Mostly people of my generation, who long for the good old days.
I am not a vegan. And I'm not always a complete vegetarian. (although I never eat meat or poultry) However, I still think that animals should be treated in a humane fashion.
As a society, being against factory farms, needless animal experimentation (pretty much all of it) circus, rodeo and fur - would seem like a reasonable direction to take.
I said being a "Vegetarian" still results in the mass slaughter of animals, not being a "vegan." And yes, if you are a vegetarian who eats dairy, animals still die to support your diet. If everyone in the world became a vegetarian, animals would still be killed. You can say it's the food industry that's doing it, but if you're buying from the food industry, you're supporting their methods with your dollars. It's almost impossible not to.
if we all stopped eating meat tomorrow animals would still be killed, cattle and sheep and chicken are bred solely to feed us humans and if we no longer eat them there is no reason for a farmer to keep them, so they will all be killed and the farmer will go over to arable crops.
I don't think that vegetarians are causing the mass slaughter of animals, either. Again, remember the term "harm reductionist".
Even vegetarians who eat occasional dairy are contributing less to the "mass slaughter" than are people who eat a Standard American Diet.
What ever you eat you can do this - eat less or infrequent meals with meat, cut down on dairy, demand that animals are treated better in every situation.
Blaming vegetarians for animal suffering and skipping over people who eat meat constantly, wear fur coats, use animal tested cosmetics and patronize the circus sounds a little crazy.
If you care at all, look at your diet. Your lifestyle. If you eat a SAD, then you are part of the problem. Vegetarians may not be perfect, but they are reducing harm and in so doing, making the lives of animals better.
Being a vegan does not cause "the mass slaughter of animals". The meat and dairy industry does this. With male calves and male chicks.
That is not an opinion. It's a fact. Male chicks are ground alive or gassed. Calves live a terrible, brief and sad life before they are turned into "veal".
People can eat meat. It is not agaist the law. However, they can stop making nervous jokes about it - "PETA - People Eating Tasty Animals" and all of that other nonsense.
They can also stop acting as though animals do not feel pain or sadness. They do.
Everyone is not going to become a vegetarian in my lifetime - or perhaps ever. Probably never.
However, kind people can adopt the position of "harm reductionist". If some animals are raised to be killed, can they be killed and raised in a more humane manner?
Are people willing to spend a bit more money to know that an animal was not miserably all of it's like or killed in a horrific manner?
Can we agree that grinding chicks alive is unspeakably evil? Can we agree that raping and beating cows and pigs is unacceptable and inhumane?
Gestational crates? Boiling animals alive?
Seriously, people ARE eating less meat every year. Every college and university that I know of serves a vegan or vegetarian option. The US military serves vegetarian and vegan MREs. (Meals Ready to Eat)
So young people are eating less meat and demanding that non meat options are available.
However, there has been a backlash among some. Mostly people of my generation, who long for the good old days.
I am not a vegan. And I'm not always a complete vegetarian. (although I never eat meat or poultry) However, I still think that animals should be treated in a humane fashion.
As a society, being against factory farms, needless animal experimentation (pretty much all of it) circus, rodeo and fur - would seem like a reasonable direction to take.
I agree with everything you said as reasonable. There is NO reason for an animal to suffer it's ENTIRE LIFE so I can have a piece of veal. None.
There is no excuse for grinding baby chicks alive - none. This is the unspeakable evil perpetuated by our industrial factory farming system.
More and more young people are becoming vegan and vegetarian - at least where I live. There are literally hundreds of restaurants to choose from; they have made it very easy to give up meat.
More and more people are starting to pay attention to where their food comes from and that can only be good IMO.
Putting ultimatums and absolutions on things people should and should not do in this regard is generally something that does not make sense.
Everything comes down to how it is done and the context in which it is done. Maybe someone should not eat so much meat and fast food garbage, but they should certainly not tell others what they should not eat patronizingly.
What works for you and your diet is not the same as what may work for others, obviously. Some people need meat. I would argue people should not eat junk food. Junk food is not meat.
Plants do not have a central nervous system. Suffering requires consciousness, and all scientific knowledge to date says that consciousness requires a central nervous system.
Humans seem to love to feel superior to all other forms of life. I am not convinced plants don't feel to be honest. I find it amazing how plants have a will to survive. They grow towards the sun and their root systems fight for water with other life forms. Large trees block sun from all little plants, yet the little plants seem to adapt. How do plants do it? Humans will magically come up with some so-called scientific explanation which would clearly show how humans are superior, yet we are the least harmonious lifeforms on the planet. We are indeed a cancer (invasive). What other form of life is so destructive to our world?
Anyway, the reason we have people running around not eating lifeforms like cattle, pigs and such is because WE can relate to them. We can't relate to plants, because that would take too much thought and depth. Humans are simple and shallow, without any care for environment at all. Even "green living" people are cancer to the planet for the most part. Just look at all the Excursions and Escalades on the road to see extreme cancer to the planet.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 04-02-2015 at 08:52 AM..
Reason: Removed icon
If someone doesn't want to eat meat, that's up to him. But it's wrong for him to try to impose his tastes on people who want do want to eat meat.
There are a million and one things that cause suffering of some sort that can be avoided. Easily in in the eye of the beholder. Suffering of someone or something in a consequence of almost any action.
The arguments offered can be customized to prohibit almost any activity. They are not really arguments at all. They are circular reasoning.
Don't eat meat. If that fits your personal tastes or beliefs, that's all the reason you need.
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