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Old 04-03-2015, 12:12 AM
 
5,829 posts, read 4,169,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DetailSymbolizes View Post
Addressed it twice and yet you still happen to be wrong.

More are being killed? So what? One animal being killed is not a moral issue, an increased number of them being killed doesn't change that.
Why is it unethical to kill a human but not unethical to kill a pig?

The difference between humans and pigs is a matter of degree, not of kind.

 
Old 04-03-2015, 12:15 AM
 
781 posts, read 736,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post
Let's say your IQ is 100 and mine is 110, just for kicks. Let's also say that we're walking through the woods and we realize that a bear is about to attack. I turn to you and say "Well, I have a better ability to think, so I think my rights trump your rights." Would you buy that argument?

Of course not. That is a stupid idea. One's thinking ability and one's right are entirely separate. No moral philosopher in the world would buy that.
Those are just two cases on the continuum of ability in thinking that these alleged beings have. But they still both belong to the category of beings with a conceptual consciousness. (who have rights, unlike animals) Animals are not in that the same category as either of your two imaginary humans, since animals are not capable of conceptualizing at all, not even on the level of a human with an IQ of 80 or any thing else. And thus they don't have rights.
 
Old 04-03-2015, 12:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DetailSymbolizes View Post
Those are just two cases on the continuum of ability in thinking that these alleged beings have. But they still both belong to the category of beings with a conceptual consciousness. (who have rights, unlike animals) Animals are not in that the same category as either of your two imaginary humans, since animals are not capable of conceptualizing at all, not even on the level of a human with an IQ of 80 or any thing else. And thus they don't have rights.
What is your justification for the position that only creatures who "think" have rights?
 
Old 04-03-2015, 12:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post
Why is it unethical to kill a human but not unethical to kill a pig?

The difference between humans and pigs is a matter of degree, not of kind.
It is a matter of kind. Humans are both volitional and have a conceptual consciousness. Animals have neither. A volitional conceptual consciousness is definitional to the concept "human". It's what separates us from all other things that exist, especially separates us from all other things that exist that live.
 
Old 04-03-2015, 12:21 AM
 
1,770 posts, read 1,662,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DetailSymbolizes View Post
Those are just two cases on the continuum of ability in thinking that these alleged beings have. But they still both belong to the category of beings with a conceptual consciousness. (who have rights, unlike animals) Animals are not in that the same category as either of your two imaginary humans, since animals are not capable of conceptualizing at all, not even on the level of a human with an IQ of 80 or any thing else. And thus they don't have rights.
Toddlers are unable to conceptualize so it is okay to kill them, right? They have no rights, correct?
 
Old 04-03-2015, 12:21 AM
 
11,337 posts, read 11,037,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post
Why is it unethical to kill a human but not unethical to kill a pig?

The difference between humans and pigs is a matter of degree, not of kind.
Again, you are context dropping. Animals do not have rights, and ethics and morality only applies from humans to other humans.

A pig is not a rational animal, hence the concept of rights to a non-rational species is a non-sequitur.
 
Old 04-03-2015, 12:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
So you can't read down to #4. I'm not surprised, but here it is:

that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.
Only one of the four definitions even mentioned humans.
 
Old 04-03-2015, 12:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post
What is your justification for the position that only creatures who "think" have rights?
Read the article in the link; it pretty much says everything I could possibly say about the subject.
 
Old 04-03-2015, 12:24 AM
 
1,770 posts, read 1,662,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
Again, you are context dropping. Animals do not have rights, and ethics and morality only applies from humans to other humans.

A pig is not a rational animal, hence the concept of rights to a non-rational species is a non-sequitur.
Where do you come up with this nonsense? Babies aren't rational, does that mean they have no rights?
 
Old 04-03-2015, 12:24 AM
 
5,829 posts, read 4,169,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DetailSymbolizes View Post
It is a matter of kind. Humans are both volitional and have a conceptual consciousness. Animals have neither. A volitional conceptual consciousness is definitional to the concept "human". It's what separates us from all other things that exist, especially separates us from all other things that exist that live.
The only difference is the ability to use language. Our phenomenal consciousness, which determines the level of experience we undergo, and consequently, our capacity to suffer, is simply a difference in degree.

Animals have first-order consciousness, which is what matters. In other words, they can experience the "ouch" as real pain. They can't think "Wow, that really hurt," but the experience of the ouch itself is enough to make their suffering real -- and something we should seek to avoid.

Your position really is quite crazy to me. You're essentially claiming that, because animals can't undergo propositional cognition, their experiences do not matter. That seems simply false on the face of it. Suffering is bad whether the creature can think "man, that's bad!" or not.
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