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What if? With the confederate flag furore raging the question might bring some interesting views.As a brit i feel i am not qualified to comment on the debate but interested to hear american citizens views.
"For united we stand,
Divided we fall,
And if our backs should ever be against the wall,
We'd be together....."
We are the "United" States. Each state exists because of the country as a whole. We protect the country and defend it. Each state volunteered to be part of the country. There's no backing out, now.
It's this kind of attitude that causes the minority to call for secession.... Folks who come to the south for the benefits of living in the south and then bash it and wish it were like the undesirable place they came from. It is completely irritating and makes one want to tell them to go back to where they came from if they can't appreciate the area for what it is.
Just an observation, not necessarily my opinion. But it gives me some sympathy for those that express the views they express.
Don't blame you for feeling this way, but some of us transplants DO appreciate the South for what it is. I don't want the South to be like the places I came from. If what my former home (s) offer was so important to me, I would have stayed up there.
Very few southerners would be stupid enough to want to leave the Union in this day and age.
Why would they? What purpose would it serve? The south as a whole is too poorly educated and doesn't make enough money to support itself, and like the lazy cousin of a well-to-do family, requires the financial assistance of the North to feed itself and keep from living under a bridge. Cutting itself off from the family that sends it the rent check every month would be suicide, and even most southerners are smart enough to understand that.
But having said that, the nation as a whole would never tolerate it. The question has already been decisively settled once; if they're stupid enough to put it to the test once again it won't be answered any differently.
You completely underestimate the South. Some of the most economically successful places in the nation are here. Have you been here?? Have you seen Atlanta, Nashville, Charlotte or Dallas??? Also have you seen the cities of the North?? How about Detroit or Cleveland?? Baltimore?? Things are not so good in those places. You think if secession were tried again the same result would occur, meaning we would lose a civil war with you. Think again, this is not 1865. The south is strong, values are intact here. The people up north are not strong, they are corrupted by decadence and immorality. Most of them do not believe in guns so what makes you think they could pull off a second victory over the South. Most members of the US armed forces are from the South or West. What makes you think they would join a fight against their people. Northerners likely do not have the stomach for something like that. Also you think the northern "blue" states would only be fighting the South?? What makes you think the red states of the west and parts of the Midwest would not join the South. There is ALOT of frustration with overbearing federal power in red state America, land grabs out west, gun control, Obamacare, gay marriage edicts, bailouts etc. Red state America is very very fed up. It would not be North vs South, it would be South, West, parts of Midwest vs the Northeast and the Great Lakes/Midwest states. The result would likely be an overturning of everything the leftist have worked for in the past few decades. They would face a total defeat. One of two things would result from this, either a breakup of the USA or the nation remaining united with a new government and constitution enshrining Christianity, capitalism, states rights and traditional values as the foundations of the nation.
The South and parts of the Midwest and West are where most industrial activity is, at least what's left of it in this country. All the Japanese car plants are in Tennessee and points south, Boeing's newest 787 factory is in South Carolina, Tesla's gigafactory is in Nevada, as well as lesser known plants and factories making textiles, furniture, processing poultry, etc.
The Northeast and the West Coast states are too socialist, overly taxed, and lazy to handle old fashioned factories these days. Sorry, liberals. You've driven businesses away. Mission accomplished, I guess.
A hypothetical secession of the southern and conservative regions of the country would leave a hollowed out shell of a country, with a lot of high tech businesses and little else. The fact is, the South today is the real America, Southerners fight our wars and make most of the stuff and keep the old fashioned American spirit alive. The liberal coasts could maybe rejoin Europe, where they would find more like minded people--atheists, socialists, central government types.
Last edited by blisterpeanuts; 07-26-2015 at 08:09 AM..
I see English comprehension is not your strong suit.
I never said most southern posters here are representative of all southerners. Beyond saying southerners want to have their cake and eat it, I said nothing at all about southerners.
I did say that I was skeptical of the claims made here by southerners, that most southerners did not want to secede. My reasoning, if those (a majority according to posters here), whom it is claimed don't want to secede, were serious about not seceding they would have exercised their political power and removed the flag long ago.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at your claim that southerners don't remember or care about the flag.
Hum, I guess we are in the same boat concerning English comprehension.
You obviously do NOT know what flag I am referring to... otherwise, job well done!
Each state volunteered to be part of the country. There's no backing out, now.
Oh, yes, there is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frihed89
I have yet to hear a candidate for the Republican nomination suggesting succession.
That's a common misconception by people who don't understand the dynamics of secession.
Secessionists won't be Republicans or Democrats, they'll simply be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueherons
Not. Gonna. Happen. Ever.
Keep dreaming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyMama
In my opinion, this question is less of a great debate than a thinly veiled attempt to bring northerners together to deride the attributes of the south, all in the guise of debating secession.
Good point.
I've spent the vast majority of my life out west, so I'm allowed to comment here.
No, I would not want the south to secede. No, I don't think they want to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyMama
You can vote with your feet to leave an area if it isn't a good fit for you, and still be unequivocally an American.
Not anymore. The Left has destroyed that in their attempt to create a goose-stepping national unitary State.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyMama
I think more strife arises between different areas of the country when the Federal government attempts one-size-fits-all solutions that ultimately satisfy no one.
Yes, it's called disenfranchisement.
The purpose of having a federal republic instead of a national unitary State is to ensure that everyone is enfranchised.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExNooYawk
Yabbut... If Texas was part of a new confederacy, those dollars would have to be shared among the remaining red states.
No, they wouldn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
Given how that worked out last time, I doubt its a popular idea.
Obviously, people unfamiliar with the realities combat should refrain from discussing combat tactics, strategy and operations.
You might want to Yahoo! "Asymmetrical Warfare."
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverhead
All comments welcome from all parts of the states.maybe i should have framed the question better.
Indeed. Thinking in terms of "the South" is so obnoxiously out-dated and old-fashioned it isn't even funny.
Here, in a nutshell, someone has spouted all the mean stereotypes and generalizations of Southerners and rural conservatives, those people that our President said were "clinging to their guns and religion..."
This thread in many ways is typical of the dysfunction and disunity plaguing our entire country: complete intolerance of "the other side", abandonment of religion among academic and urban populations resulting in contempt for the remaining religious population, etc.
It would be easy to say: no, you leave, and don't let the door hit you on the way out. But in reality, we have to try to reconcile our differences and get along. It used to be a given (after 1865, at least) that we were one country, not always in agreement, not always liking each other, but still we're all Americans.
Now I wonder if that sense of nationality has finally disappeared. Maybe it was an artificial thing, forged in the two great World Wars and the shared suffering of the Depression.
It seems people today, ever since the so-called liberation of the 1960s, stick to their narrow self-interests, their narrow little beliefs, and are completely intolerant of disagreement. The closing of the American mind, indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyMama
In my opinion, this question is less of a great debate than a thinly veiled attempt to bring northerners together to deride the attributes of the south, all in the guise of debating secession.
I've spent the vast majority of my life out west, so I'm allowed to comment here.
No, I would not want the south to secede. No, I don't think they want to.
The beauty and strength of the United States is in it having among the various states a wide diversity of cultures and attitudes along with geography and climate. I treasure that about our country. You can vote with your feet to leave an area if it isn't a good fit for you, and still be unequivocally an American.
This diversity gives us more experimentation with regard to solving local problems, more points of views, more tailored solutions for issues affecting one area more than another, or at least it should.
I think more strife arises between different areas of the country when the Federal government attempts one-size-fits-all solutions that ultimately satisfy no one.
Two great posts. I'm a northerner and a liberal (and I grew up in another wealthy country), but I couldn't agree more. I love the South, and I love the diversity of thought that exists in the US that does NOT exist in other western countries. It truly is something to be proud of. BUT the US also has got to be among the most relentlessly agitated, polarized countries in the world. And it is our continued infighting that will be our undoing, ultimately.
I honestly believe we don't have to fear terrorism, weapons of mass destruction, political or economic turmoil in other global regions, emerging financial/military superpowers, or even cyber warfare NEARLY as much as we should fear our own domestic turmoil and terrorism, ideological warfare, and increasing socioeconomic intolerance and disaffection. The US won't be taken down by external forces. ISIS will not get the better of us. Nor will China or Russia or North Korea (not anytime in the near future, anyway). But at the risk of sounding melodramatic, if we don't get our house in order, the United States will implode. As a nation of people, we will destroy ourselves from within long before our enemies get to us.
Last edited by newdixiegirl; 07-27-2015 at 02:59 PM..
I have to agree that the issue nowadays is not so much a North/South divide as an urban/rural divide. The politics in the Great Plains are just as hyper-conservative as they are in the South, and there are liberal urban areas in the South that aren't that dissimilar from ones in the North.
One way to look at it is 2012's election and the subsequent petitions for state secession. In some states (including Texas and Georgia,) there were counter-petitions to allow their major cities - Austin, Atlanta, etc. - to remain in the union. All of the petitions were ignored, but it does show the disconnect between urban and rural politics, a divide that's especially prevalent in states like Georgia, Illinois, Texas, Washington, California, and New York.
That's why secession would be tricky. You'd have sizable, urban chunks of the seceding states petitioning the federal government to ensure (by force if necessary) that they can stay in the United States.
I have to agree that the issue nowadays is not so much a North/South divide as an urban/rural divide. The politics in the Great Plains are just as hyper-conservative as they are in the South, and there are liberal urban areas in the South that aren't that dissimilar from ones in the North.
One way to look at it is 2012's election and the subsequent petitions for state secession. In some states (including Texas and Georgia,) there were counter-petitions to allow their major cities - Austin, Atlanta, etc. - to remain in the union. All of the petitions were ignored, but it does show the disconnect between urban and rural politics, a divide that's especially prevalent in states like Georgia, Illinois, Texas, Washington, California, and New York.
That's why secession would be tricky. You'd have sizable, urban chunks of the seceding states petitioning the federal government to ensure (by force if necessary) that they can stay in the United States.
- skbl17
This is true, to a certain extent. Of course you would see a large urban/rural divide in the North. However, in the South, it gets fuzzy. And I don't want to open up a can of worms, but it is what it is. In the South, there is a large race divide. Alot of rural, predominantly Black counties vote Democrat where are the rural, predominantly White counties vote Republican. Rural, urban, and in the South, it is often Black and White.
And then take Texas. Just for the sake of Texas being mentioned, there is more to consider. Alot of predominantly Hispanic counties voted Democrat these past few elections. That could be another factor to consider.
Florida is not the same state it was in 1861. It was more like Georgia in those days, and most of its population was in the northern panhandle. Today, Florida's population is more diverse than it was in those days. Alot of people living in Florida weren't born in Florida. Florida went for President Obama, twice.
The whole idea of the South trying to secede, it gets fuzzy when you break it down by counties, and by demographics.
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