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By living in a society that believes in laws, you are by default accepting that police do have the authority to tell you what to do.
Yes, there are some cops who are not suited to be in law enforcement. There needs to be a better way to screen those guys out. There are indeed some cops who do not belong there. But for the most part, I appreciate the fact that they are there to make our lives better, and that theirs can be a dangerous job.
because of their training, their job is no more dangerous than anybody else, it not like he a steel erector or highway surveyor, which are 100 times more dangeous.
as far as your default, i have not seen that contract yet, maybe we need to get microsoft on that too.
I watched the video of the latest police/ suspect shooting that is causing a lot of protest and it boggles my mind why this type of death happens.
Common sense would tell most of us if we had just committed a crime or crimes and the cops are coming and starting to surround us we would drop the weapon if any and put our hands up. Add to this a cop, gun drawn shouting orders to stop! hands up! drop the weapon! get down on the ground! or any other order they yell at us that we would comply. Right or wrong when someone has a gun drawn you should do what they tell you to do.
Of course I'm referring to Laquon Mcdonald and Michael Brown was another case. Why do these young men choose to not comply with police orders and even attack them? Where is all this anger coming from?
I think we need to teach our youth to stop and use their heads. Of course we should also teach them not to commit crimes in the first place that puts them into a potential altercation with the police.
One could argue if mcdonald hadn't slashed the tire of that cruiser and hadn't been walking around with the knife he would have never been a suspect. If he hadn't been walking down the middle of the street like Brown was the cops might not have found either of them.
It is tragic that these young men had to die in such a senseless way.
Kids Don't break the law. If you do and the cops come for you please comply with their orders and you will live to have your day in court. Ignore them or fight back and there is a chance you will die.
I think you hit the nail on the head. The police cannot and will not engage in combat on some kind of spurious terms of equality with the assailants and perpetrators.
This works both ways. Some people think they are entitled to do things whether unlawful or just inappropriate, but some cops think their badge gives them the right to push people around. Both are wrong.
As far as the OP, a non violent criminal does not deserve to die for running from the cops. Is it wrong? Yes, but it does not warrant a death sentence. A person who is running away is of no threat to anyone. A person 20 plus feet away with a knife out is not a threat until they charge someone, then shoot away. Some cops are too trigger happy. If someone absolutely must be shot, a single shot to the leg is enough to stop them. If an officer can not accomplish that, they need more training. Firing endlessly into a suspect's chest and head is entirely uncalled for and should not be tolerated.
Penny, your first point is right on the mark. Agree 100%
I believe you are just naive regarding statement # 2. A person with a knife cannot be thought of as non violent, especially after slashing a tire and running down the street with the weapon in full view.
You think 20 ft is a safe distance from an armed man? Any young man, already running, can travel 20 ft in seconds. Watch a football game, and count how long it takes any given player to run 7 yards. He most certainly is a threat.
Police are taught to aim center mass, not for extremities. Not only is it very difficult to hit such a small target like a leg, especially in the heat of the moment, but even if you did, a lot of guys aren't going down immediately from 1 shot to the leg. How many times have you heard of it taking 3 or 4 cops to take down some hopped up criminal? If that guy is 20 ft from me, I want the cop to shot to kill. Period. Would you want any less if you were 20 ft away and he turned and charged you or a family member?
All that being said, this cop clearly has no reason to keep firing after the guy is down. With the history of complaints he has, he seems like a bad cop who should have been disciplined long ago. CPD and all involved parties who fought to keep this video supressed have to be held accountable.
Penny, your first point is right on the mark. Agree 100%
I believe you are just naive regarding statement # 2. A person with a knife cannot be thought of as non violent, especially after slashing a tire and running down the street with the weapon in full view.
You think 20 ft is a safe distance from an armed man? Any young man, already running, can travel 20 ft in seconds. Watch a football game, and count how long it takes any given player to run 7 yards. He most certainly is a threat.
Police are taught to aim center mass, not for extremities. Not only is it very difficult to hit such a small target like a leg, especially in the heat of the moment, but even if you did, a lot of guys aren't going down immediately from 1 shot to the leg. How many times have you heard of it taking 3 or 4 cops to take down some hopped up criminal? If that guy is 20 ft from me, I want the cop to shot to kill. Period. Would you want any less if you were 20 ft away and he turned and charged you or a family member?
All that being said, this cop clearly has no reason to keep firing after the guy is down. With the history of complaints he has, he seems like a bad cop who should have been disciplined long ago. CPD and all involved parties who fought to keep this video supressed have to be held accountable.
I think you misunderstood my second point. If a person is standing 20 ft away with a knife out, they aren't doing anything, but standing. Talking them down is still an option. The cop will undoubtedly have his/her weapon drawn, one step, boom the suspect goes down. At that point I see this as an appropriate time to take a lethal shot. A raised gun is different, as it is an equal playing field, so if someone raises a gun at anyone, well getting shot by the cops is justified. When a person is running away, they aren't doing anything threatening, but if the crime they committed was heavy enough that immediate arrest is pertinent, then a shot to the leg or lower back would slow the perp down. If the suspect just stole a pack of cigarettes or some other petty crime, with no threat of violence and they are running and the cop can't catch them, the cops need to stop being so prideful and just let them go. The suspect doesn't deserve to die for something so stupid.
Penny, your first point is right on the mark. Agree 100%
I believe you are just naive regarding statement # 2. A person with a knife cannot be thought of as non violent, especially after slashing a tire and running down the street with the weapon in full view.
You think 20 ft is a safe distance from an armed man? Any young man, already running, can travel 20 ft in seconds. Watch a football game, and count how long it takes any given player to run 7 yards. He most certainly is a threat.
Police are taught to aim center mass, not for extremities. Not only is it very difficult to hit such a small target like a leg, especially in the heat of the moment, but even if you did, a lot of guys aren't going down immediately from 1 shot to the leg. How many times have you heard of it taking 3 or 4 cops to take down some hopped up criminal? If that guy is 20 ft from me, I want the cop to shot to kill. Period. Would you want any less if you were 20 ft away and he turned and charged you or a family member?
All that being said, this cop clearly has no reason to keep firing after the guy is down. With the history of complaints he has, he seems like a bad cop who should have been disciplined long ago. CPD and all involved parties who fought to keep this video supressed have to be held accountable.
Good points. All cops want to go home at the end of their shift. They deal with the dregs of society on almost a daily basis some of whom wouldn't give a toss about killing a cop. The stress gets to some and give the good cops a bad name.
The young man had a knife not a gun so that one shot that put him on the ground should have been enough to stop the threat. The bad cop didn't need to unload on the suspect and that is why he is up for murder.
I agree that anyone who was involved in suppressing the video needs ot answer for that. no one is above the law.
Back to the common sense approach to staying alive is not to engage in risky things and not to get into trouble by breaking the law in the first place.
I'm afraid those who want to sound off (yet again) about the legitimacy of the McDonald shooting have hijacked your thread. Let's see if we can get back to your original point:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd
...Of course I'm referring to Laquon Mcdonald and Michael Brown was another case. Why do these young men choose to not comply with police orders and even attack them? Where is all this anger coming from?...
In both these cases, the victims had extensive criminal experience. Both were fleeing the scene of robberies; Brown had just committed a strong-arm robbery and McDonald was armed (though he was actually caught committing burglary to vehicle). Autopsy revealed that both were on drugs at the time of their encounter with police.
But you are correct that there is a defiance being bred into a segment of our population - and a sense that no one can or will do anything to stop them. They observe society abandon traditional rules, laws, and mores, so why should they follow the laws that they don't like?
Moreover, gang and peer influence is gaining in importance at that age. Chicago is notorious for its gangs.
I am a 'rational choice' criminologist - admittedly a very unpopular theory among my colleagues. My answer would be that these young men made a decision to do what they did because they thought no one would - or could - stop them, so they would reap the benefits of their offenses and not suffer the pain of penalty.
Ooops. Wrong decision. But then, how many of your best decisions were made when you were a teenager? None of mine made back then would have won any awards for their brilliance.
I don't recall any recent articles being written in the Journal about this sense of defiance, but I also can't see how the researcher could get grant funding for it, so don't expect one any time soon. I'll go look in the library again, just to see if I missed one.
But you are right; there is a shift among some of our youth away from compliance toward defiance, and there are organizations now to support that defiance (like BLM; RevCom, OFA and others), so I expect it to get worse before it gets better.
I watched the video of the latest police/ suspect shooting that is causing a lot of protest and it boggles my mind why this type of death happens.
Common sense would tell most of us if we had just committed a crime or crimes and the cops are coming and starting to surround us we would drop the weapon if any and put our hands up. Add to this a cop, gun drawn shouting orders to stop! hands up! drop the weapon! get down on the ground! or any other order they yell at us that we would comply. Right or wrong when someone has a gun drawn you should do what they tell you to do.
Of course I'm referring to Laquon Mcdonald and Michael Brown was another case. Why do these young men choose to not comply with police orders and even attack them? Where is all this anger coming from?
I think we need to teach our youth to stop and use their heads. Of course we should also teach them not to commit crimes in the first place that puts them into a potential altercation with the police.
One could argue if mcdonald hadn't slashed the tire of that cruiser and hadn't been walking around with the knife he would have never been a suspect. If he hadn't been walking down the middle of the street like Brown was the cops might not have found either of them.
It is tragic that these young men had to die in such a senseless way.
Kids Don't break the law. If you do and the cops come for you please comply with their orders and you will live to have your day in court. Ignore them or fight back and there is a chance you will die.
You need PARENTS that know how to PARENT for that, & unfortunately parents are stuck at work so the "parenting" is left to low income daycare/after school workers. Or NON English speaking nannies!
I'm afraid those who want to sound off (yet again) about the legitimacy of the McDonald shooting have hijacked your thread. Let's see if we can get back to your original point:
In both these cases, the victims had extensive criminal experience. Both were fleeing the scene of robberies; Brown had just committed a strong-arm robbery and McDonald was armed (though he was actually caught committing burglary to vehicle). Autopsy revealed that both were on drugs at the time of their encounter with police.
But you are correct that there is a defiance being bred into a segment of our population - and a sense that no one can or will do anything to stop them. They observe society abandon traditional rules, laws, and mores, so why should they follow the laws that they don't like?
Moreover, gang and peer influence is gaining in importance at that age. Chicago is notorious for its gangs.
I am a 'rational choice' criminologist - admittedly a very unpopular theory among my colleagues. My answer would be that these young men made a decision to do what they did because they thought no one would - or could - stop them, so they would reap the benefits of their offenses and not suffer the pain of penalty.
Ooops. Wrong decision. But then, how many of your best decisions were made when you were a teenager? None of mine made back then would have won any awards for their brilliance.
I don't recall any recent articles being written in the Journal about this sense of defiance, but I also can't see how the researcher could get grant funding for it, so don't expect one any time soon. I'll go look in the library again, just to see if I missed one.
But you are right; there is a shift among some of our youth away from compliance toward defiance, and there are organizations now to support that defiance (like BLM; RevCom, OFA and others), so I expect it to get worse before it gets better.
Excellent points.
In the Brown case what did he think was going to happen when he attacked the cop?
With Mcdonald what did he expect when ordered to stop, drop the weapon and get down yet he continued to walk away?
Both of these guys would be alive today if they were not so defiant and considering their crimes they would have been slapped on the wrist.
What can the cops do? they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. They had no idea if Mcdonald if left to walk away was on his way to stab his girlfriend, mug someone or continue slashing tires. It is the job of the police to stop someone that is breaking laws before they have a chance to break more or really hurt someone.
When the police pull up on a suspect they have no idea if that person is drunk, high out of his mind, armed to the teeth and willing to shoot anyone or in this day wearing a suicide vest.
With Mcdonald the cops got a call that a guy had slashed a tire and was brandishing a knife. A danger to the public. That is why we pay cops to take care of this type of riff raff.
The trouble is Mcdonald ran into a cop that was having a bad day, was angry, trigger happy, a possible racist..... He is facing a murder charge for "losing it". Mcdonald lost his life for being stupid.
Blame it on society, drugs, a bad entitled cops can't touch me attitude or a wish to die?
To all kids and adults, a cop tells you to stop you stop. If the gun is drawn he really means it and you could die. Life is not a video game or movie and no one really cares about your street cred for defying the law.
That cop was an idiot, anyone of them could have tasered the kid and that would have been the end of it. I have a couple of cop friends and they agree. Even police have to have a legitimate reason to shoot.
I have to agree with this. John and I watched the video several times and his professional opinion was that the person in front should distract the kid while the person in back tased him. There was more then one police officer at the scene. It will be interesting to see how his defense will proceed and I would love to hear the officers version as to why he found it necessary to shoot. I'm glad the protests were peaceful here but blocking stores on Black Friday was just dumb. Why are innocent vendors being punished for a cop killing a teenager and how did capitalism kill him? Go protest at the police department, the mayor's house, and city hall. Leave the innocent people out of it.
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Go protest at the police department, the mayor's house, and city hall. Leave the innocent people out of it.
