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Old 12-22-2015, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,568,031 times
Reputation: 14693

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoHoVe View Post
I didn't read any of the prior responses but ending handouts to women based on the number of children they produce would be a great place to start!

No, the place to start is ending the per child tax deduction. Why does the government reward me with less taxes because I chose to have children? IMO, every adult should pay their own taxes and the only deduction they get is themselves. I have no idea why our system rewards parents. I get mortgage write offs because buying houses is good for the economy. I get child care deductions because child care is a work related expense for working parents. I don't get why I get an automatic deduction just because I have kids. (I'm taking it because they're giving it but I don't get why they give it.)
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Old 12-22-2015, 01:44 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 11,054,626 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
No, the place to start is ending the per child tax deduction. Why does the government reward me with less taxes because I chose to have children? IMO, every adult should pay their own taxes and the only deduction they get is themselves. I have no idea why our system rewards parents. I get mortgage write offs because buying houses is good for the economy. I get child care deductions because child care is a work related expense for working parents. I don't get why I get an automatic deduction just because I have kids. (I'm taking it because they're giving it but I don't get why they give it.)
The dependency exemption is also discriminatory, penalizing older taxpayers, single taxpayers, and married childless taxpayers.
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Old 12-22-2015, 02:34 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 11,054,626 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
Identifying quote.
My stuff is in blue.

Wishing for smaller government is one of the mantras of those who have failed to see the rising tide of power behind the government. Thinking that the White house is the seat of power and the director of government policies simply demonstrates a tremendous lacking in understanding just how real power is working behind the clown faces in American politics. It's been a grandiose corporate puppet show from the beginning and that will continue without any change regardless of which of the two faithful parties are sitting in DC. Witness the Donald in earlier press reports gushing over his "admiration" for the Clinton's.

I see where this is going. Hatred of capitalism, hatred of corporations, hatred of business, and irrational worship of the "little guy". It's collectivist-populist nonsense. The problem isn't corporations or business, they are the motor of American society and the reason for its greatness. THE PROBLEM IS BIG GOVERNMENT INVOLVED IN EVERY ASPECT OF BUSINESS. Which causes the useless and bad businessmen to attempt to rig every game using political power, because they are not good enough to achieve anything on the merits.

Welfare for the rich is exactly why we need welfare for the poor. It's an epiphany for some that this is how the real re-distribution is happening on both sides of the welfare equation. Color those welfare dollars for the poor and see where they end up, our largest retailer is but one of the recipients of those dollars, the rest goes to gasoline, landlords, and a sundry of other merchants who have learned to love welfare for the fact that they too are on a form of government aid. The poor don't eat those dollars they spend them!! All welfare is corporate in the sense that the majority of those dollars end up in corporate tills.

So you are resentful that the poor have to spend the money they steal from the rich on goods and services. Wow, you really do hate achievement, business, and capitalism.

Most of the poor aren't idiots, but they have been systematically displaced in an economic sense, marginalized to the sidelines and then utilized in the roundabout hand off of government dollars to the likes of Walmart and others. The standing army of the poor are now simply a conduit for those welfare dollars to be spent into the American economy. Acting as though that one conduit (social welfare) is responsible for the heavy tax burden payed out by the middle class is total nonsense, but then again this little scheme has it's radio talking heads to shout this theory until the rest of those conduits are out of sight and mind.

Again, you want the poor to steal the money, but keep it, so the "evil" businessmen don't get it back. Even that great Satan Robin Hood couldn't make you happy. When he gives to the poor, they will buy stuff from the rich, and that's bad.

A ton of the merchant class is also on welfare. Add to those "dollars to the poor" the ton of "help" we give the rich and you can see the real picture forming of how our re-distributive economics works.

The military is another conduit for more large scale redistribution of our tax dollars, in fact, looking at the federal budget one needn't look too long or hard before seeing the relationship between taxes and the loop of dollars collected, budgeted, distributed, and then spent in our ever growing tax dollar dependent economy. You won't find any support for your smaller government on Wall street, or the boardrooms of our largest corporations, or among the chiefs of staff at the Pentagon, they're all on welfare!!

This is silly. Money spent on defense is valid and good. It is not redistribution. We need to be able to destroy the rest of the world many times over, so military expenditures need to be huge. Military expenditures are vital goods and services that keep our country free so that the corporations (who are the People in case you forgot that) can continue doing the excellent work of providing innovative and fun things to buy and own. Redistribution is not JUST ANY government expenditure. It is specifically the theft of assets from those who have them for the unearned and undeserved benefit of those who don't.

So, tax breaks are NEVER a form of corporate welfare. The taxes were illegitimate in the first place. A corporation should pay no taxes. They should be able to keep all the profits they generate.

So, you don't like this setup, you have lots of company, but, that crowd is being systematically separated along political lines (the real job of politicians) in order for it to carry on uninterrupted by any force of democracy. Republican and Democrat chumps fight over their notions of leadership, the real power is laughing all the way to the bank. Yes the rich are getting their fair share of American spoils, they hardly need anymore cheer leading teary eyed supporters bowing down to them as the "creators" of jobs and all that is good, we, the people, are the real "good" in America and it past time to let them know just how clearly we do see. Now let the elections begin..

This conspiracy nonsense is not productive and non-rational. The simple truth is a small government with little to no role in the economy would yield an end to cronyism. If there is no political power over the economy, there is nothing to corrupt and no one to conspire with. As far as economic power, that belongs to private citizens and corporations. And that is where it should remain. So we need to move towards full free-market laissez-faire capitalism where politicians have little or nothing to say about the economy.

Your philosophy seems to be some confused and diffuse form of populist-leftist-collectivist nihilism. I would also suspect you are an avid environmentalist, since Green Terrorism also has as its main goal the destruction of the good for being the good, the productive for being the productive, and the achievers for providing the achievements.

Envy, envy, envy, hate, hate, hate. The people who make money are bad, the "little guy" who does nothing is the good. The fix is in, and the "powers that be" are responsible for individual failure and inability to make money and get ahead. Your philosophy is completely backward and stupefyingly corrupt. Please change it. For your own sake.
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Old 12-22-2015, 03:48 PM
 
1,955 posts, read 1,763,225 times
Reputation: 5179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
My stuff is in blue.

Wishing for smaller government is one of the mantras of those who have failed to see the rising tide of power behind the government. Thinking that the White house is the seat of power and the director of government policies simply demonstrates a tremendous lacking in understanding just how real power is working behind the clown faces in American politics. It's been a grandiose corporate puppet show from the beginning and that will continue without any change regardless of which of the two faithful parties are sitting in DC. Witness the Donald in earlier press reports gushing over his "admiration" for the Clinton's.

I see where this is going. Hatred of capitalism, hatred of corporations, hatred of business, and irrational worship of the "little guy". It's collectivist-populist nonsense. The problem isn't corporations or business, they are the motor of American society and the reason for its greatness. THE PROBLEM IS BIG GOVERNMENT INVOLVED IN EVERY ASPECT OF BUSINESS. Which causes the useless and bad businessmen to attempt to rig every game using political power, because they are not good enough to achieve anything on the merits.

Welfare for the rich is exactly why we need welfare for the poor. It's an epiphany for some that this is how the real re-distribution is happening on both sides of the welfare equation. Color those welfare dollars for the poor and see where they end up, our largest retailer is but one of the recipients of those dollars, the rest goes to gasoline, landlords, and a sundry of other merchants who have learned to love welfare for the fact that they too are on a form of government aid. The poor don't eat those dollars they spend them!! All welfare is corporate in the sense that the majority of those dollars end up in corporate tills.

So you are resentful that the poor have to spend the money they steal from the rich on goods and services. Wow, you really do hate achievement, business, and capitalism.

Most of the poor aren't idiots, but they have been systematically displaced in an economic sense, marginalized to the sidelines and then utilized in the roundabout hand off of government dollars to the likes of Walmart and others. The standing army of the poor are now simply a conduit for those welfare dollars to be spent into the American economy. Acting as though that one conduit (social welfare) is responsible for the heavy tax burden payed out by the middle class is total nonsense, but then again this little scheme has it's radio talking heads to shout this theory until the rest of those conduits are out of sight and mind.

Again, you want the poor to steal the money, but keep it, so the "evil" businessmen don't get it back. Even that great Satan Robin Hood couldn't make you happy. When he gives to the poor, they will buy stuff from the rich, and that's bad.

A ton of the merchant class is also on welfare. Add to those "dollars to the poor" the ton of "help" we give the rich and you can see the real picture forming of how our re-distributive economics works.

The military is another conduit for more large scale redistribution of our tax dollars, in fact, looking at the federal budget one needn't look too long or hard before seeing the relationship between taxes and the loop of dollars collected, budgeted, distributed, and then spent in our ever growing tax dollar dependent economy. You won't find any support for your smaller government on Wall street, or the boardrooms of our largest corporations, or among the chiefs of staff at the Pentagon, they're all on welfare!!

This is silly. Money spent on defense is valid and good. It is not redistribution. We need to be able to destroy the rest of the world many times over, so military expenditures need to be huge. Military expenditures are vital goods and services that keep our country free so that the corporations (who are the People in case you forgot that) can continue doing the excellent work of providing innovative and fun things to buy and own. Redistribution is not JUST ANY government expenditure. It is specifically the theft of assets from those who have them for the unearned and undeserved benefit of those who don't.

So, tax breaks are NEVER a form of corporate welfare. The taxes were illegitimate in the first place. A corporation should pay no taxes. They should be able to keep all the profits they generate.

So, you don't like this setup, you have lots of company, but, that crowd is being systematically separated along political lines (the real job of politicians) in order for it to carry on uninterrupted by any force of democracy. Republican and Democrat chumps fight over their notions of leadership, the real power is laughing all the way to the bank. Yes the rich are getting their fair share of American spoils, they hardly need anymore cheer leading teary eyed supporters bowing down to them as the "creators" of jobs and all that is good, we, the people, are the real "good" in America and it past time to let them know just how clearly we do see. Now let the elections begin..

This conspiracy nonsense is not productive and non-rational. The simple truth is a small government with little to no role in the economy would yield an end to cronyism. If there is no political power over the economy, there is nothing to corrupt and no one to conspire with. As far as economic power, that belongs to private citizens and corporations. And that is where it should remain. So we need to move towards full free-market laissez-faire capitalism where politicians have little or nothing to say about the economy.

Your philosophy seems to be some confused and diffuse form of populist-leftist-collectivist nihilism. I would also suspect you are an avid environmentalist, since Green Terrorism also has as its main goal the destruction of the good for being the good, the productive for being the productive, and the achievers for providing the achievements.

Envy, envy, envy, hate, hate, hate. The people who make money are bad, the "little guy" who does nothing is the good. The fix is in, and the "powers that be" are responsible for individual failure and inability to make money and get ahead. Your philosophy is completely backward and stupefyingly corrupt. Please change it. For your own sake.


"So you think that money is the root of all evil?" said Francisco d'Aconia. "Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce."

but also...

"Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion—when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing—when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors—when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you—when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice—you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that it does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot. "

we need to get back to...

"To the glory of mankind, there was, for the first and only time in history, a COUNTRY OF MONEY—and I have no higher, more reverent tribute to pay to America, for this means: a country of reason, justice, freedom, production, achievement. For the first time, man's mind and money were set free, and there were no fortunes-by-conquest, but only fortunes-by-work, and instead of swordsmen and slaves, there appeared the real maker of wealth, the greatest worker, the highest type of human being—the self-made man—the American industrialist."

Money
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Old 12-22-2015, 03:59 PM
 
1,198 posts, read 1,794,210 times
Reputation: 1728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
No, the place to start is ending the per child tax deduction. Why does the government reward me with less taxes because I chose to have children? IMO, every adult should pay their own taxes and the only deduction they get is themselves. I have no idea why our system rewards parents. I get mortgage write offs because buying houses is good for the economy. I get child care deductions because child care is a work related expense for working parents. I don't get why I get an automatic deduction just because I have kids. (I'm taking it because they're giving it but I don't get why they give it.)
Cause people are good for the economy too.

Turns out people buy all sorts of stuff, and pay all sorts of taxes.
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Old 12-22-2015, 04:06 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 11,054,626 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkbab5 View Post


"So you think that money is the root of all evil?" said Francisco d'Aconia. "Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce."

but also...

"Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion—when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing—when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors—when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you—when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice—you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that it does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot. "

we need to get back to...

"To the glory of mankind, there was, for the first and only time in history, a COUNTRY OF MONEY—and I have no higher, more reverent tribute to pay to America, for this means: a country of reason, justice, freedom, production, achievement. For the first time, man's mind and money were set free, and there were no fortunes-by-conquest, but only fortunes-by-work, and instead of swordsmen and slaves, there appeared the real maker of wealth, the greatest worker, the highest type of human being—the self-made man—the American industrialist."

Money
Oh my lord, you are playing with ancient fire. We don't admire competence in public. Is that how you were brought up? Didn't you get the memo? There is no quality or virtue, only privilege, for which you are to apologize and pay reparations. Someone needs to go to Camp Chippewa for reindoctrination.
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Old 12-22-2015, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Washington state
7,030 posts, read 4,910,217 times
Reputation: 21913
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb at sea View Post
ANYTHING you DO NOT EARN, is welfare...whether it's cash, or stamps, or whatever....if it comes from someone else who does NOT GIVE IT WILLINGLY......if someone gives it willingly, it's charity or a gift.......

ANYTHING that comes from tax dollars is welfare.
Like funding for roads and public schools and social security and the national defense and public health care and interest on the national debt and veteran's benefits and law enforcement and infrastructure, and mail service and clean drinking water and safe food and funding for science and technology, among a whole host of other things?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
But most poor people are idiots who want even bigger government, more handouts, less freedom, and more tyranny over those they are envious of.
Thanks - I really feel great now since I'm poor and have been called an idiot because of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
Like 1 child and that's it. Anything else, you starve and yes, your family dies in the street and gets picked over by ravens and buzzards. Pregnancy is a choice. All we are doing by funding multiple kids to single moms is producing the next graduating class of criminals, shooters, stabbers, jackers, hustlers, drunks, and druggies.
Well, that answers that question. It's OK - now that I know you don't care if children in the US die from starvation or live in shacks and slums like they do in undeveloped countries, I won't be bothering you anymore.

On the bright side, it's nice to know all those criminals, shooters, stabbers, jackers, hustlers, drunks, and druggies aren't smart enough to steal millions in white collar crime, isn't it? Like Madoff, Enron, the Koch Brothers, and all those others that caused the crash of 2008. That's such a relief, knowing only rich people can do that, get bailed out for it and if they're lucky, not go to jail. Yep, if you're poor and steal, you're a menace to society, but by golly, if you're rich and steal, you're a hero!
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Old 12-22-2015, 11:33 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 11,054,626 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
Thanks - I really feel great now since I'm poor and have been called an idiot because of it.
Not necessarily. I said most. It wasn't always so. Earlier generations of poor people thought of themselves as only temporarily poor, until they could make things happen and get themselves established and successful. Success was the goal.

Today? Whining is the goal. And envying and hating those above you. The poor no longer want to become the rich, they want to destroy the rich. Led by the left wing collectivists who lead them, mislead them, and suck up to them to maintain power and funding.

Quote:
Well, that answers that question. It's OK - now that I know you don't care if children in the US die from starvation or live in shacks and slums like they do in undeveloped countries, I won't be bothering you anymore.
It's no bother. Correcting bad viewpoints is my schtick. It's an old habit with me. Sort of like breathing.

Quote:
On the bright side, it's nice to know all those criminals, shooters, stabbers, jackers, hustlers, drunks, and druggies aren't smart enough to steal millions in white collar crime, isn't it? Like Madoff, Enron, the Koch Brothers, and all those others that caused the crash of 2008. That's such a relief, knowing only rich people can do that, get bailed out for it and if they're lucky, not go to jail. Yep, if you're poor and steal, you're a menace to society, but by golly, if you're rich and steal, you're a hero!
OK so last time I looked, Madoff was a pariah, is permanently in jail and his family disowned him and his kid died from probably stress-induced cancer. Hardly the gilded life of a hero. As far as the Koch Brothers, insofar as they consistently fight against Green Terrorism and Eco-fascism, well, yes, they are entitled to some hero worship. Anyone who fights Green Terrorists can't be all bad.

And yes, the government is directly culpable in the production and distribution of the criminals, shooters, stabbers, jackers, hustlers, drunks, and druggies. By funding, supporting, and comforting the single mothers who produce them and reproduce them. With money stolen from the good people who work hard and earn that money and should be the owners of that money and the direct beneficiaries of their effort and work. Instead of having their wealth stripped from them using the police power of the state against their will, against their judgement, against their morality, against their philosophy, and against the basic principles of Reason, Logic, and healthy Psycho-Sociology.

Lest I be misunderstood, the male cretins and brigands who impregnate and abandon the single moms who have cast out all morals or values are EQUALLY guilty of producing the shooters, stabbers, jackers, hustlers, drunks, and druggies. And should be hounded, pursued, and garnished up their azzes and eventually imprisoned if they can't be compelled to support the litters they produced.

I am really tired of the phony fake fraudulent pre-occupation with "the little guy" and the LCD and the weakies. Let's start looking up to big people with big qualities and start emulating them. The "little guy" be damned already. Nobody aspires to be a "little guy", it is not one of the Terms of Endearment. Rather, it is from a different show: Terms of Contempt, and rightly so.

And one small jack: for the Love of God let's please not elect the Collectivist Vapid Biddy who didn't have the coglioni or self-esteem or self-respect to divorce Le Miserable Bimbo-Humper. We are going to make THAT the leader of the free world? Are y'all effin kiddin' me?

Let's try a billionaire. Let's try something completely different. The Vapid Biddy could not be worse. Could not. Be. Worse.
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Old 12-23-2015, 02:12 PM
 
5,252 posts, read 4,684,057 times
Reputation: 17363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
My stuff is in blue.



I see where this is going. Hatred of capitalism, hatred of corporations, hatred of business, and irrational worship of the "little guy". It's collectivist-populist nonsense. The problem isn't corporations or business, they are the motor of American society and the reason for its greatness. THE PROBLEM IS BIG GOVERNMENT INVOLVED IN EVERY ASPECT OF BUSINESS. Which causes the useless and bad businessmen to attempt to rig every game using political power, because they are not good enough to achieve anything on the merits.


So you are resentful that the poor have to spend the money they steal from the rich on goods and services. Wow, you really do hate achievement, business, and capitalism.



Again, you want the poor to steal the money, but keep it, so the "evil" businessmen don't get it back. Even that great Satan Robin Hood couldn't make you happy. When he gives to the poor, they will buy stuff from the rich, and that's bad.

[color=Blue]This is silly. Money spent on defense is valid and good. It is not redistribution. We need to be able to destroy the rest of the world many times over, so military expenditures need to be huge. Military expenditures are vital goods and services that keep our country free so that the corporations (who are the People in case you forgot that) can continue doing the excellent work of providing innovative and fun things to buy and own. Redistribution is not JUST ANY government expenditure. It is specifically the theft of assets from those who have them for the unearned and undeserved benefit of those who don't.

This conspiracy nonsense is not productive and non-rational. The simple truth is a small government with little to no role in the economy would yield an end to cronyism. If there is no political power over the economy, there is nothing to corrupt and no one to conspire with. As far as economic power, that belongs to private citizens and corporations. And that is where it should remain. So we need to move towards full free-market laissez-faire capitalism where politicians have little or nothing to say about the economy.


Your philosophy seems to be some confused and diffuse form of populist-leftist-collectivist nihilism. I would also suspect you are an avid environmentalist, since Green Terrorism also has as its main goal the destruction of the good for being the good, the productive for being the productive, and the achievers for providing the achievements.

Envy, envy, envy, hate, hate, hate. The people who make money are bad, the "little guy" who does nothing is the good. The fix is in, and the "powers that be" are responsible for individual failure and inability to make money and get ahead. Your philosophy is completely backward and stupefyingly corrupt. Please change it. For your own sake.
Marc, your ability to exemplify those on top as saviors as opposed to your hatred of those on the bottom demonstrates the typical thinking of those whose world is pure black and white. All the poor are scum, all the disadvantaged are vermin, all the people on the dole are cheaters, all those who are marginalized by economic realities beyond their capability to change them are useless humans eating your resources, and conversely, those on top who have demonstrated a much larger appetite for the public's money are nearing saintly stature. Your obvious attempt to characterize anyone with a heart as a foe of business simply allows us to see your inability to understand an opposing view.

I laughed out loud at your assumption of my status as one of a corporate "hater" or business in general hater, I owned and operated my own business for years, payed employees and contributed to society. I was a small business owner, so there was never any kinship implied to that of the multi national corporate conglomerate. I don't hate corporations, but I'd be the first to criticize their assumed "special status", especially any assumption of their being better than the rest of us. They are business entities period, we are more than their equals in many ways, and that should be their rightful place at the table.

My view of things isn't in any way off base from what many know is an everyday reality in America. Yes corporate welfare does exist, and yes corporations exercise more than their share of our democracy, and the fact that you can so easily dismiss the military budget as a thing fraught with corruption doesn't change the fact that there is a mighty unsavory relationship between contractors and the tax payers dollars they receive from the pentagon. Acting as though that "stealing" is of a "higher nature" than that which you have implied is a norm in the social welfare system is disingenuous at best and worse, it shows that your agenda goes beyond some twisted notion of justice. I can't and won't address the insane notions of "Green Terrorism" in the interest of civility. As for your take on America being capable of destroying the rest of the world I think that's been a done thing for some time now.

I don't want to take this thread off topic but your views on welfare in general should be addressing the reality of the entirety of welfare including the OP's notion of social welfare with a different twist. I'm a firm supporter of any and all attempts to have the poor in America clothed and fed to the extent that we don't have the kind of country you advocate for (dying in the street) and are presumably hoping for a political candidate who advocates the same lame notion of self reliance.

This kind of tough guy rhetoric only shows a tremendous lacking in understanding of what it means to live in a democracy. In other words the poor here do have a voice, weak as it may be. The rise of an anti poor sentiment will serve as a harbinger of social divisions that will have politicians promising unrealistic "solutions", creating an America you wouldn't really want to live in.

Unlike you I pay my taxes without too much fanfare or complaining, and yes I do get angry when the likes of Paulson and Blankfein steal those tax dollars, further, I also understand who was at the bottom of the schemes that took this country down more than a few notches in 2008, your hint-- it wasn't the person on welfare...

This brings me to my last observation regarding your statements, your overall tone is reminiscent of the kind of bluster radio tough guy talk that really skews any real debate, mostly it's amusing, but on the other hand it does signal a change in the American norms of political discourse, I have my own thoughts regarding your position, and I don't know that the posters here are necessarily persuaded by claims of the other persons position being a thing of "stupefyingly corrupt" philosophy. My thoughts are not a philosophical offering, but moreover an opposing view of your take on things, in other words----a debate..
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Old 12-23-2015, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Washington state
7,030 posts, read 4,910,217 times
Reputation: 21913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post

OK so last time I looked, Madoff was a pariah, is permanently in jail...
He's the only one. Not one of the people who caused the problems in 2008 spent any time in jail.


I guess the thing is, you said poor people are idiots and you can't get much poorer than me right now.

But here's what frosts me: when I bought my house, I was considered part of the middle class, the good people, the ones who "count" in this world, I guess you could say. What no one seems to understand is that buying that house was a huge mistake and had I not sold it when I did, I would have been one of those who lost my house. Yet people seem to think that buying the house was something good. It wasn't.

Now however, I am on food stamps and Medicaid and in subsidized housing and I have a brother who thinks like you, that I am a leech on society and sponging off the taxpayers and a total loser. He had no problem with me when I was working full time and bought that house, but now that I need help, he refuses to have anything to do with me.

And here's the kicker: I'm basically the same person on food stamps that I was when I bought my house and was working. Nothing has changed about me. I'm not dumber or prettier - OK, I'm older and fatter, but inside, I'm still the same person. I can still explain quantum mechanics to you. I still can't wrap a Christmas present without it looking like it went through a war or two. So if I'm still the same person I was before, what's changed? Just my circumstances.

So excuse me for feeling confused. It's puzzling to me when I am considered a a person with value when I have money, but a total loser when I don't. It's like when I was a cashier and living in my truck. People would come into the store and complain about all those horrible homeless people that "I" had to put up with. To them, I was a member of the community when they saw me behind the counter and someone equal to talk to. After my shift when I walked out of the store, I was one of the horrible homeless people they had been talking about. And yet, if any of the customers had talked to me when I was off work, I would have been the same exact same person they talked to in the store.

Interesting, isn't it, how our preconceived ideas clash with reality.
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