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I have lived with AA members my entire life. Went to Al Anon as a kid and even young adult, before I recognized how damaging it is to the family unit, the addict and the system.
So, your personal experience. Ok.
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Originally Posted by tcmtcm
Was married to an "old timer" for 16 years - he gave his life to the program.
When an addict is suffering, and has not found something that helps them, I truly feel horrible.
At the end of it, it's literally a "take what you want and leave the rest". I've personally seen some of what I would call "addiction to meetings", but by and large, the successes that I have seen in the "A" programs have nothing to do with replacing one addiction for another.
Guilty of what exactly? Offering a way to sobriety?
As my personal experience is not with AA, this is news to me.
Frankly, I have never looked at the "messengers" when it comes to these programs. If these programs work, for even a small minority of people, what good comes from vilifying the founders?
"Well gee, my life is so much better because of this program, but dang, the founder was a POS." Why is that even an issue?
There is a bigger picture out there for you to consider if you choose. I don't think you do - cognitive dissonance is common among the lifers and supporters of any group like AA (read: cult).
You have asked me to prove why I don't accept it as a viable treatment, and I've provided more than enough information to satisfy your curiosity. I can tell that you want to argue that you are indeed right and no one else is. Excellent that it works for you. Please do not follow the normal steppers and tell a single person that they aren't sober because they didn't do step 6/7/12 properly, or they didn't confess their transgressions properly (according to their "sponsor"), or turn over their life to a higher power. You do not have the ability to assess a disorder in ANY human - unless you share your credentials you have no business telling anyone how to recover from addiction.
I can tell that you want to argue that you are indeed right and no one else is.
You can tell that from what I've said here?
I've been speaking of my own experience. Of course I'm right. It's MY experience.
That others cannot understand that people are, in fact, helped by 12 step programs is their issue, not mine. I am only stating what I have seen and experienced-- and yes, responding to gross overstatements and generalizations regarding "the programs".
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcmtcm
Excellent that it works for you.
Thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcmtcm
Please do not follow the normal steppers and tell a single person that they aren't sober because they didn't do step 6/7/12 properly, or they didn't confess their transgressions properly (according to their "sponsor"), or turn over their life to a higher power. You do not have the ability to assess that in ANY human - unless you share your credentials you have no business telling anyone how to recover from addiction.
Certainly, I can tell others what has worked for me? Or, is that not allowed either?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcmtcm
Experience as an addict is not a profession.
While that's a truly quaint saying, how is it applicable in this scenario?
There is a bigger picture out there for you to consider if you choose. I don't think you do - cognitive dissonance is common among the lifers and supporters of any group like AA (read: cult).
Yes. There is plenty of information regarding the rising opposition by people are concerned about the lack of advancement in addiction treatment. The focus on what has gone wrong with our most accepted treatment in this country has revealed a lot about the organization. As with any religious group, people get very upset about being questioned or challenged. The anonymity is a protective factor - again, you can google any of these topics.
I've been speaking of my own experience. Of course I'm right. It's MY experience.
That others cannot understand that people are, in fact, helped by 12 step programs is their issue, not mine. I am only stating what I have seen and experienced-- and yes, responding to gross overstatements and generalizations regarding "the programs".
Thank you.
Certainly, I can tell others what has worked for me? Or, is that not allowed either?
While that's a truly quaint saying, how is it applicable in this scenario?
Yup, you need to want recovery. There's no magic pill, no "easy way".
IMO, 12-step (or any other recovery program) is precisely what the person involved makes it, whether they are "hard-core" or not.
No doubt that every single path to recovery has a high failure rate. If they didn't, then there would be far fewer addicts, I would say.
What exactly makes your experience "the truth" and mine pure opinion and hearsay?
Well, let's see... 19 rehabs for the last decade, usually 90 days at a shot, and an MD/PhD... anything else you want to know?
I have every day, each day to research this. At a rather famous place in Boston. But enough information from me. What exactly is YOUR experience about the "truth"?
Fortunately, I am only in the states a few months a year. Where we live has a different problem (opiates) which makes me throw up, so that is not a problem for me.
Please state your credentials... the world wants to know.
Please state your credentials... the world wants to know.
My credential is that I have lived it as well, and have found something that has worked for me and for many people that I have had the privilege to come to know through my own journey.
Why wait until the damage is done. The drugs come in through our borders, if we would do something about that at least some drug addition may be stopped before it even starts. It could save many lives in the future.
Why wait until the damage is done. The drugs come in through our borders, if we would do something about that at least some drug addition may be stopped before it even starts. It could save many lives in the future.
More addicts are made by pill mills and over prescription of legal opiates.
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