Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You see things in life as black OR white, either/or. Things are more complex in the real world.
And in the real world when doing the same thing over and over again isn't working, it's time to change things. I know it's hard for men to understand, but things aren't exactly going peachy-keen in the Stop Rape department. So maybe it's time to change the ground rules until men stop raping and rapists keep getting out of prison, when the police can be bothered to jail them in the first place.
"Across the country, tens of thousands of rape kits are sitting in police evidence rooms — waiting to be tested."
Tens of thousands. And these are from women who went through the grueling process of enduring a rape kit, reporting the rapist, and believing justice would be served.
Because there is usually very little evidence and the consequences can be around the same as murder so the burden of proof should be high. The unsettling trend now is that burden of proof is slowly shifting until guilty until proven innocent depite the 20 year price tag.
If rape were 20 hrs of community service thats different but if your going to put someone away for 20 years you better have tons of evidence and it better be beyond a shadow of a dobut. I sat in a jury selection for a rape case and the prosecution straight up asked us if we could convict on purely cirucmstantial evidence and I thought is this guy for real, did they really want to have an emotially driven dog and pony show with no evidence and lock this guy up for 20 years becuase she shed some tears.
Anyone who has a kid these days, especially a boy, should be tried for child abuse. I could not imagine the gaunlet a male will have to walk through in the next 20 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63
If you blame the victim you overlook that, in the case of rape, the RAPIST RAPED them. That the act occurred totally trumps whatever the victim was wearing or if they were out late at night, etc. THE RAPIST DID IT, the victim didn't rape themself - you're just making excuses for the perp.
BTW, I'm not sure why you see blaming the victim only in terms of rape and not things like victims of other kinds of assaults, theft, poverty, etc. The principles are the same. Also, I don't get your comment "Why is it also wrong for me to think someone is lying about being raped?". Sure, it's possible but I believe at least one study indicates that happens in maybe 5% of cases...I mean, think of all the cases of arson and insurance fraud - there's a lot higher percentage of lying there! Somehow with rape the fact that there are a few liars is used to negate that rape ever occurs or that it's serious. That same argument isn't usually applied to other crimes - but with rape, any excuse seems to be enough to invalidate the entire crime.
Can a rape kit prove it was consentual or not? When they start convicting men on a whim for this stuff it will be time for men to shoot there way out of it. You either have proper law and order or you can have chaos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBeam33
And in the real world when doing the same thing over and over again isn't working, it's time to change things. I know it's hard for men to understand, but things aren't exactly going peachy-keen in the Stop Rape department. So maybe it's time to change the ground rules until men stop raping and rapists keep getting out of prison, when the police can be bothered to jail them in the first place.
"Across the country, tens of thousands of rape kits are sitting in police evidence rooms — waiting to be tested."
Tens of thousands. And these are from women who went through the grueling process of enduring a rape kit, reporting the rapist, and believing justice would be served.
But what is the line that we can put blame on victim? Is it just going to a club, drinking at a club, dancing, dancing and drinking, waiting for a cab after the club, going back with a guy from the club, etc.? Then we have to not say well it depends on the case because all cases are vastly different.
This is a fair question, and it is going to differ among people and circumstances. Generally speaking though, we can rely on common sense. Excessive drinking is a significant factor and should be avoided. If a woman just met a man, she should not be alone in his home, dorm room or hotel room. If a woman is dressed provocatively, twerking on a dance floor, how is she going to be perceived?
The problem with those who complain about "victim blaming" is that they believe a woman should be able to act however she wants, place herself into perilous situations, and still accept zero responsibility for what happens to her. This is where I disagree.
There's a difference between rights and probability. The probability that harm will come to you in a crime-ridden area might be higher than in other locales. But just because you choose to walk down the street at 3am in the morning does not give someone the right to mug / rape you. Yes, it may increase the probability of it happening, but the attacker is still 100% wrong for doing so.
I don't understand why there is more vitriol towards the person who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, or who made a poor choice, than there is towards perpetrators who actively seek to cause emotional, physical and financial damage to others.
Exactly this. What is this reasoning that someone engaged in risky behavior is "asking" to be victiminzed? They are doing no such thing. Think of prostitutes who are murdered. Do they engage in a high risk profession? Yes. Does selling sex for money mean they are "asking" to be killed? Of course not. They don't meet a john with a sign on their forehead saying "Because I engage in a very high risk job, I'm requesting that you hurt/kill me"
Rape is a crime that I refuse to place any blame on the victim for. I don't buy into the whole "she was behaving in a manner as to encourage" thing. I can't care if she's the biggest tease on Earth, or how she's dressed, how she's behaving, or whether she's drunk , high whatever, and dancing topless on the bar. Nobody "has it coming". If anything, a woman who is in a state as I described needs protection, and the attitude of "she's asking for it", projected by many, supports that.
I know, firsthand, how rape effects a woman. Even if its not a successful attempt, its devastating. I can't, and refuse to, accept that a woman should be forced to live with such a thing, for the rest of her life, because she gets drunk one night and is wearing ssexy clothes. To me, that's no different than some vermin raping a woman. walking to her car in her work clothes. Rape is rape. There are no excuses or justifications. That's my take on it.
And in the real world when doing the same thing over and over again isn't working, it's time to change things. I know it's hard for men to understand, but things aren't exactly going peachy-keen in the Stop Rape department. So maybe it's time to change the ground rules until men stop raping and rapists keep getting out of prison, when the police can be bothered to jail them in the first place.
"Across the country, tens of thousands of rape kits are sitting in police evidence rooms — waiting to be tested."
Tens of thousands. And these are from women who went through the grueling process of enduring a rape kit, reporting the rapist, and believing justice would be served.
Yes, please tell me how the status quo is working.
If you're going to pull the: "I know it's hard for men to understand" routine, then I will, too. Perhaps it's hard for women to understand personal responsibility for thinking wisely about where they go and what they do. I never said women invite rape. So don't put that off on me. But I think of myself and how I try to think wisely about where I go and what I do in order to protect myself as a senior citizen. No one is saying rapists are not to blame. What I am saying, and what I have been saying is that women (and by the way, a surprising number of men are raped, too), ought to think wisely about their safety. Is there something wrong with you thinking wisely about your safety?For example, I recently sold some furniture on Craigs List; and I had pepper spray right in my pocket when people came to look at the furniture. I don't go to high crime areas, particularly after dark. I don't hang out in sleazy restaurants and bars. I think before I go someplace I'm not familiar with. I think about who I am with. That's what I'm talking about -- using some critical thinking skills to keep oneself as safe as possible.
You act as if every man out there is running around raping women. If you can support such a fantasy, show me the data.
There seems to be no reliable data regarding whether rape in America is increasing or decreasing. At least that's what I see when I goggled it. But no matter how common or rare rape is, it's not "peachy-keen".
And, please show me where I said "the status quo is working".
In fact, maybe you ought to peruse this: https://rainn.org/get-information/se...ult-prevention
It's from Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network, and it includes things women should consider to reduce the risk of sexual assault. Or is it hard for them to understand rape, also?
Rape is a crime that I refuse to place any blame on the victim for. I don't buy into the whole "she was behaving in a manner as to encourage" thing. I can't care if she's the biggest tease on Earth, or how she's dressed, how she's behaving, or whether she's drunk , high whatever, and dancing topless on the bar. Nobody "has it coming". If anything, a woman who is in a state as I described needs protection, and the attitude of "she's asking for it", projected by many, supports that.
I know, firsthand, how rape effects a woman. Even if its not a successful attempt, its devastating. I can't, and refuse to, accept that a woman should be forced to live with such a thing, for the rest of her life, because she gets drunk one night and is wearing ssexy clothes. To me, that's no different than some vermin raping a woman. walking to her car in her work clothes. Rape is rape. There are no excuses or justifications. That's my take on it.
And in the real world when doing the same thing over and over again isn't working, it's time to change things. I know it's hard for men to understand, but things aren't exactly going peachy-keen in the Stop Rape department. So maybe it's time to change the ground rules until men stop raping and rapists keep getting out of prison, when the police can be bothered to jail them in the first place.
"Across the country, tens of thousands of rape kits are sitting in police evidence rooms — waiting to be tested."
Tens of thousands. And these are from women who went through the grueling process of enduring a rape kit, reporting the rapist, and believing justice would be served.
Yes, please tell me how the status quo is working.
For informational purposes, there a plenty of men who get it plenty. Maybe its hard for some women to understand, but many of the women who are attacked have husbands/partners, and this is a huge issue for them. There are a lot of men out here that have a dog in the stopping rape fight, and in making justice and help available for victims. They realize that the "system" needs serious work, starting at the investigation level There are plenty of horror stories that begin during initial investigation, and the problems go straight uphill. They're easy to find. Just follow the trail of human wreckage. .
Rape is a huge issue for men too. In far more ways than concern over false accusation. Your post.could be seen as ctagorizing all men as the enemy, or at the least apathetic, in the rape issue. If that is the case, just wanted to set the record straight.
Many of you seem to think rape only happens to women. Hate to break the news that many men are raped, and due to societal views that rape victims are to blame...they never report it.
How sad and warped this view is.
Rapists are skilled at choosing their victims and skilled at controlling the situation. It's about power and control...not a short skirt or level of drunkenness.
Women and men should try to make wise choices and minimize their risk, but if they are raped it's not their fault. So quit bringing it up.
Rape is horrible...no buts. No...if she was smart.
Seriously. Have you ever gone to the grocery store? Driven alone at night? Gone to a coworkers/acquaintance home? Gotten in a car with someone you know? Gotten drunk? Been to a party? Gone jogging? Gone on a date? Taken a drink from someone? Etc...etc...if so...You are just living life and do not deserve to be raped. Life makes you vulnerable. Men are vulnerable too. It's time to stop blaming the victims.
Our military reports 30 something men are raped every day in the military. http://www.gq.com/long-form/male-military-rape Even these "tough" guys aren't immune. You probably know a male that has been raped, and he will NEVER tell you because you secretly think he should have been able to prevent it.
I think people blame women for rape, because it comforts them that they can teach their wife/daughter to avoid being raped. you can make perfect decisions in life and still be raped.
Last edited by Meyerland; 01-26-2016 at 06:55 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
